View Full Version : In War and life, do you get what you give?
They say that you get what you give.
But, is it not true that you cannot give to receive back ?
And also, I have found that I do not always get back what I give. I find that life is a hard, vicious fight and that in the end you die. The only mitigating factor is looking thru the world in rose coloured glasses.
They say that you cannot want just accept and be humble. But what if you just give and do not receive ?
I find in this world you can be nice, but you have to watch your back literally and figuratively. People respect what they think they know and if you can either be this or fake it then you have them in your pocket.
As a commander, there is just not one way to win, yet "the way" can sometimes be one way.
And so, the best commander is a singular representation of his men with no selfish needs except for his people.
With no war, this is rare for peacetime commanders who are best at politics.
Does a commander get what he gives?
Maybe. Maybe not. He could be right or wrong in his choices hoping to match his perspective of reality with true (i.e. everyones) reality.
In other words, saying "you get what you give" is psychcosomatic release from the fact that you do not always get what you give or what you perceive to be.
The problem is our minds capacity to perceive truth.
Can a commander perceive truth?
Can a commander be a creater of life?
Can a commander make the enemy become one with him?
I know we can all believe what we what to, to perceive our own reality, but can we go beyond our own limitations or are these inherent limitations our prisons or both or neither or does my computer spontanously combust as I ponder this.
The reason I pose this post, is that the question is:
IS LOVE, WAR?
The point, is that I have given to women and I can truthfully say that I have not gotten back as much as I have given.
And you know what, I know alot of other men who are in the same boat as me. :(
What pisses me off, is when women come and tell me the exact same thing.
And so, with people, you do not always get what you give and as a commander be wary of this wisdom in the post title. :(
alukyan
11-23-01, 11:54 AM
Honestly, this should be apparent in that life is non-zero sum. Were the world zero-sum, then yes, you could get back what you gave.
Look at physics.
Sir Issac Newton stated for each action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
The CONSERVATION of Energy Equation.
Work ext + Work Fk = Delta Ke + Delta U
Basically, sciences are very zero sum, as shown by the equal sign.
However, it does not take long for a person to quickly realize that life is not so clear cut as science.
Such as Sherman, his use of total war is what he gave. In return, some would say he recieved infamy. I would rather say he earned a certain fame in the modern world as the first person to start 'modern war'.
So for commanders, what they give to their troops, their battle, their strategy cannot result in recieving the same results.
For instance, say a commander has ardently prepared his troops and plans for an assault on his enemy.
The enemy commander is lazy, more interested in politics than war, and as a result, his plans are heavily flawed, and his troops lax.
So when the commander attacks the enemy, he achieves much more from his preperation due to the enemy's incomptence.
Another way to look at it, a lax commander is ordered to attack a well prepared one. However, the lax one triumphs because of circumstances over which he had no control. Another example of not getting what you give.
So a person cannot get what they give, because there are too many other factors involved, and a wise commander would review these other factors.
Or in case of life and women, just give up. You can't win. Just have to be that lax commander who happens to win. Thats what happened to me. :o :D
abraham
11-23-01, 02:05 PM
I'm surprised nobody's said this: ALL'S FAIR IN LOVE AND WAR. Anything goes. Anything's possible.
KaptaineIvan
11-23-01, 03:55 PM
Taylor,
Posse etiam sub malis principibus magnos viros esse- great men can exsist even under evil rulers-a quote from the Roman author Tacitus.
This is something I know, something I experianced. Its ok to feel despair, but you must never give in. You have to light your soul up, and struggle to keep it lit, and good. If you don't, who will? People give up much to easily in life, you have to try harder. If your having trouble with women, don't mess with them until your sure you know yourself and what you really want out of life. You goal is what when you date a woman, when you love a woman, when you give to a woman? What are you trying to get out of it? Is there a better way?
Is it your biological clock, you hormones, your sense of normalicy guiding you though your life, or is it you, the part that actually does the thinking, the part that knows you best, guiding you?
SunZulu
11-23-01, 04:46 PM
Miyamato Musashi Exerpt:
"...if you know the Way broadly you will see it in everything. Men must polish their particular Way."
If you take these two ways of thinking
1)Imagine - Strategize - Plan - Execute
as oppossed to
2) Think - Plan - Strategize - Execute
In example "1" your tactics will match your strategy and your energy will be focused on your objective.
In example "2" The tactics are dictating the strategy and focus is to wide and will be convoluted. This is a major problem with managing anything! To FOCUS on the OBJECTIVE is the key to Strategy and getting work done.
Force => Power => Energy => Work
The "way" is like a projected motion picture. If the information (a movie)is in focus you can see it clearly and make decisions on it based on the images portrayed. If it is not in focus, you have to extrapolate information and make inferences with less than complete information. Strategy is the art of gathering and using information to your advantage.
War is a failure of focus. As Sun Tzu said:
"Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."
Hang in there Taylor. :) You'll get through this one way or another.
No, you don't always get what you put in. But then again, sometimes you get more than you expect. Expectations can influence how you perceive the results. In other words, you give because you want to give -- not because you want something in return. Sounds too idealistic to some people, but hey, we'll take that criticism any day of the week.
And no, life is not always fair. Leaders don't expect it to be. That's why one must always plan for contingencies. The difference between someone who can pull through and someone who gives up is not in the circumstances; it's how each reacts to them. Quite difficult when emotions get involved, but most of us get better with more age and experience.
warlord
11-24-01, 02:14 AM
You give all the time, every second of your life, not just when it is convenient for your selfimage to think so. In the context that you are reaching for it is more correct to speak of sharing than giving. You do not lose what you share, instead it is magnified in your view. And what you are sharing is always your essence beacuse nothing else can be truly shared. In the Zun Tzu it is mentioned that prestige robs you of victory. In this context it diverts your sight from the essence of your self and the true meaning and potential of the situation at hand. And isn't it so that the prestige or pride of the selfimage is the purpose when you start comparing who is giving and getting more.
Somewhere it is written "man know thyself" beacuse herein lie all answers and this should be the purpose of any giving and recieving. This is the only purpose that can have value beacuse it is the cause of value and points to the essence of value.
The fate of a nation lies in the tao of the leaders. Tao is in everything and harmony is the way.
Taylor,
First, who are THEY?? You are listening to THEM & you are getting discouraged. Maybe THEY don't know as much as THEY think THEY do, about you. Now, you(& me & everyone else) are supposed to give unconditionally. When you(& all) give, expect nothing in return. Thats it, nothing else. When THEY return the giving (if they decide to!!), that is the gift. No matter how big or small, they have decided to give you as much as they can afford. This is especally true when it comes to emotions & women.
I believe if you read this months FORTUNE mag., there is an article on leadership, you will get your answers to you being a better leader or commander or whatever. It would BEHOVE YOU to read it.(know what I mean?!)
Is love war?? The answer is.......NO!!!!! think about it, are you wanting to fight the one you love?? Or, at best, are you gonna take her prisoner?? Do you really think that she would like(LOVE) that?? How about you?? The book everyone(women) is reading is "Men are from Mars & Women are from Venus". It seems that women have copped that attitude; being concidered GODDESS!! This is SOOOOOO wrong!! This is a true statement: Women desire to be led by an awesome man. Are you awesome?? If so, good. But there is always room for improvement, so find it & be better. If you are not awesome, change your attitude. Women want a man who is CONFIDENT. Start here, then improve your life for the better. She will notice.
enough for now, bro. Good luck!!
SunZulu
11-24-01, 05:58 PM
Hi Taylor,
A wise man once told me "If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always got." He told me this because I
was convinced that I was on the right path and he was convinced that I was not. In our discussions we found there were key variables that he could not see and different key variables that I could not see. After these meetings I stubbornly rejected his recommendations and proceeded down my path acknowledging that some of what he said might be right. After a long while, and receiving more of the same crap, I found the solution to my problem was not to find a new path but to make the path that I had chosen work better. I had to re-examine some of the things I'd taken for granted and I remembered from a high school sociology class that "A need fulfilled is no longer a need." This is an important statement because when someone gives a person something (groceries for example) on an ongoing basis, a recipient person can lose sight of a need being fulfilled and there isn't really a need until some thing stops.
In this modern world we all seek consistency, predictability and simplicity in our numerous activities. To achieve the goals from
these activities we create short-cuts. When we create short-cuts, we cut out things that we don't think are necessary, and concentrate on what we think is critical. The problem that I found is, when we are working as a member of a relationship and short-cuts are made and not communicated, the supposedly unnecessary variables removed by one person might be critical variables to an other member of the relationship. The only way to prevent this type of occurrence is to TALK to the other member of the relationship and get FEEDBACK on your plan. You might not agree which variables (if any) to remove but at
least you'll have a chance at precluding the occurrence of collateral damage from a unilateral decision. If you are not getting for giving, what you are giving might not be a need until it is removed. It sounds to me that the acknowledgment for what you have
given is one of your needs. You need to TALK and get FEEDBACK. A friend of mine said to me as I was complaining about one of my relationships, "The one you love always looks better in someone else's arms".
I hope this helps...
Sir H. Master
11-24-01, 06:40 PM
Ooh Taylor, you make me feel sad....
You sound as a minstrel, trying to touch our fragile hearts. But mind games, is what you like so much, touching the fragile fabrics of our mind. As a treaterous web you spin it. Traps were ever we walk. I wish not to be the one to step on them.
You ask us: "Is love, war?"
A mind comparison, is that the case?
It is not. And the point is not taken for the point you state on this remark.
Because, have you gotten back from War what you invested in it? Ofcourse you haven't but is it even a comparison?
Love life. Still remember that love's battleground is not the same as lives battleground. And which of these two does War apply too?
Every soldier in war needs love, and in some cases they get it by taking love. In these cases, it not true love but it gets them close. And what did they invest?
They invested their souls.
It is the only copmparison between war and love. One taking lives and one giving lives, as the physical is concerned.
As for the General:
- does he like himself, as he does life??
- does he like life, as he does love??
- does he like his soldiers, as he does life??
- does he like war, as he does his soldiers??
- Is he a human down to the bone or is he a tiran doen to the bone?
This makes a diff.
GreetZ,
Sir H. Master
<MAGNAFLUX>
11-29-01, 08:32 AM
Maybe you and your dates have different values. Perhaps what you see as valuable i.e. time, attention, or what other things or actions you think are valuable, your partner doesn't see as being that important. Every person has different values and perspectives. So, perhaps you might look for someone with more similar goals, aspirations, outlook, ect...
Well, I try and always make certain that I never visit someone else's home or apartment unless I bring a gift.
A bottle of wine, joy, flower(s), happiness, a kind word, a compliment, or even a smile.
I always bring something. Always.
BingFa :cool:
Ghengis Khan
02-05-02, 07:57 AM
Taylor, visit this :
http://www.askmen.com/message_boards/index.html
I hope this helps. I found it and have visited this site everyday since then.
Quietly, for a few monthes, I have resided in the background as a reader of various posts on infinite subjects with all forms of subjective opinions. For this I thank all for sharing. Here is my first humble contribution on this matter which Taylor has selected:
For me, if I give calm, I receive peace. If I give acceptance, I find acceptance. If I give hope, I find hope. If I give, I Do receive...and if I share myself, I am given what I gave, myself.
This can be taken in a negative format as well, yet I prefer serenity rather than anger.
In life I do get what I give inevitably...it may take time, but it is destined this way...for me.
Here exists "The Way",for me, that I have watched so many describe, for me.
Yes, bad things do happen to good people, yet in the end, was not a lesson learned in the experience? Invariably experience is the true teacher of knowledge, and knowledge of oneself is power...in my opinion only.
Me.
Originally posted by <Me.>:
Quietly, for a few monthes, I have resided in the background as a reader of various posts on infinite subjects with all forms of subjective opinions. For this I thank all for sharing. Here is my first humble contribution on this matter which Taylor has selected:
For me, if I give calm, I receive peace. If I give acceptance, I find acceptance. If I give hope, I find hope. If I give, I Do receive...and if I share myself, I am given what I gave, myself.
This can be taken in a negative format as well, yet I prefer serenity rather than anger.
In life I do get what I give inevitably...it may take time, but it is destined this way...for me.
Here exists "The Way",for me, that I have watched so many describe, for me.
Yes, bad things do happen to good people, yet in the end, was not a lesson learned in the experience? Invariably experience is the true teacher of knowledge, and knowledge of oneself is power...in my opinion only.
Me.
Great response and we're glad you are joining the message board.
Warpath
02-09-02, 01:07 AM
when you are in a relationship, if you view things as "i have given to them, they should give to me" then what you gave is no longer a sacrifice and becomes a favor. doing favors for other people is not what love is all about, its about giving when you expect nothing in return, and sacrificing your needs for theirs. if you love someone and you give freely of yourself to them, you shouldnt need anything in return. their happiness is all that should matter.
cruelty in a person is a very foul thing, you should be nice except when its time not to be nice. there is no reason to view life as a struggle. its all about the tides, sometimes their up, sometimes down, and you cant avoid that cycle only shorten one to lengthen the other. you have to be knocked down to get up is what im saying. as for
"People respect what they think they know and if you can either be this or fake it then you have them in your pocket"
creating illusions are generally not a good idea unless you only plan to do them for a short time. once you start to keep the truth locked away you have to keep it up. thats a tiring thing. if someone feels so strongly that they are lacking that they need to create an illusion, then they should spend that energy becoming that illusion. your better off when dealing with people to be truthful. as for relationships they are created for the purpose of mutual benifit, when that benefit is gone the relationship ends, unless there is another reason to keep it going. just some random thoughts on the matter, good luck in life.
You’ll never get back what you give unless you give with love in your heart. That is why this statement from warpath is so important:
when you are in a relationship, if you view things as "i have given to them, they should give to me" then what you gave is no longer a sacrifice and becomes a favor. doing favors for other people is not what love is all about, its about giving when you expect nothing in return, and sacrificing your needs for theirs. if you love someone and you give freely of yourself to them, you shouldnt need anything in return. their happiness is all that should matter.
WOW!
I wanted you to understand the importance of flourishing. Work on your own life and those who respect you will follow. Without material wealth and possessions you’ll have nothing with which to be benevolent with. Once you have a position where all your resources can flourish, you will have "grace within your means". If you hoard your profits, you will never be known. If you give away your treasures you will lose your awesomeness and be forgotten. If you share in your profits everyone will be happy. This IS the mark of someone truly virtuous. You will be loved long after you’re gone.
Do not give time – Share it.
Do not give love – Share it.
Do not give objects – Share in the joy.
Love is not war. In love you do not seek an advantage or fight to preserve your ideals and religious beliefs. You do not seek the quick victory. In love you must nurture and trust which takes time. If you trust someone that stabs you in the back which one of you is the sucker? You for living a good life and doing what you believe in or they who let their faults control their actions?
I think the saying may be “you get what you pay for.” This is different since you put time and resources into what you want and need. Then you put more time and energy into preserving it. As you said: “life is hard”, but “they never said it was going to be easy”. Don’t forget that you are simply on borrowed time in this world.
I have heard of many great prolonged loves, but I have never heard of a great protracted WAR.
In essence the problem is about power.
Power over who does what to whom. I make no claims to wanting such a situation and yet there it is.
Money is power in womens eyes.
I do not hold this against them, however my bag, if you will, is hypocrisy.
Romance is nice, but never true.
Money is power.
This is what I see.
This is what I sense.
True love is a lie.
Having this lie foisted upon, rammed into the social psyche, distorted, etc.
Sharing without getting back is very noble, but very foolhardy. Ask any woman.
Experience learned is a nice afterthought, but would you rather be alone or with someone you did not like but you get to have intimate relations?
Who out there is stronger than their dick?
According to women, whose love we have to share, thats all a man is.
Trust, is a matter of fate.
Now, bringing up experience, if there is something I have learned it is that:
A) You think you know someone but you never do; one day they can do something right out of the blue, like a different person. The strangest part is that that person could be you.
B) Never introduce you woman to your friends; it is trouble.
See, Sun-Tzu came from a time of Men who killed each other directly (well maybe times have not changed to much). Women had their place. I am not condoning it, its just a fact. The paradox, is that in our supposedly "free" western society, its still the same thing. Money is power.
Unfortunately, I am poor. This is my fault. I also am not good with games. Why wait? If you like someone, whats the problem?
So, games involve strategy.
War involves strategy.
In fact, war is the pinncacle, the highest expression of man winning. Man conquering.
Women want a macho, together, powerful, caring/uncaring superman who knows about who they (women) are yet can also be a man.
In closing, there is a war occuring right now, a long protracted one, involving all of humanity against each other in a form of survival called power. Look around, you either fight to survive or die. You work or die. You give your soul and hope that it comes back and if not... :(
By the way, in Maxim magazine for this month, the city I live in Toronto is called the best city to live in and that Toronto women are the best and very aggresive.
Let me please inform all men that this is complete
BULSHIT!
See, its this type of crap that pisses me off.
If there was a war people would be stronger with each other. But what a price.
All you men with your wisdom who are responding, I hope you all have had your hearts ripped out by love and then smashed to oblivion. This is my pain. A waking death.
Originally posted by Taylor:
In essence the problem is about power.
Power over who does what to whom. I make no claims to wanting such a situation and yet there it is.
Money is power in womens eyes.
I do not hold this against them, however my bag, if you will, is hypocrisy.
Romance is nice, but never true.
Money is power.
This is what I see.
This is what I sense.
True love is a lie.
Having this lie foisted upon, rammed into the social psyche, distorted, etc.
Sharing without getting back is very noble, but very foolhardy. Ask any woman.
Experience learned is a nice afterthought, but would you rather be alone or with someone you did not like but you get to have intimate relations?
Who out there is stronger than their dick?
According to women, whose love we have to share, thats all a man is.
Trust, is a matter of fate.
Now, bringing up experience, if there is something I have learned it is that:
A) You think you know someone but you never do; one day they can do something right out of the blue, like a different person. The strangest part is that that person could be you.
B) Never introduce your woman to your friends; it is trouble.
See, Sun-Tzu came from a time of Men who killed each other directly (well maybe times have not changed to much). Women had their place. I am not condoning it, its just a fact. The paradox, is that in our supposedly "free" western society, its still the same thing. Money is power.
Unfortunately, I am poor. This is my fault. I also am not good with games. Why wait? If you like someone, whats the problem?
So, games involve strategy.
War involves strategy.
In fact, war is the pinncacle, the highest expression of man winning. Man conquering.
Women want a macho, together, powerful, caring/uncaring superman who knows about who they (women) are yet can also be a man.
In closing, there is a war occuring right now, a long protracted one, involving all of humanity against each other in a form of survival called power. Look around, you either fight to survive or die. You work or die. You give your soul and hope that it comes back and if not... :(
By the way, in Maxim magazine for this month, the city I live in Toronto is called the best city to live in and that Toronto women are the best and very aggresive.
Let me please inform all men that this is complete
BULSHIT!
See, its this type of crap that pisses me off.
If there was a war people would be stronger with each other. But what a price.
All you men with your wisdom who are responding, I hope you all have had your hearts ripped out by love and then smashed to oblivion. This is my pain. A waking death.
Wow, Taylor; you've had it rough. Risking something so important as love is worth it. Perhaps you need to question the types of women you associate with, and how you view women in general. The most important thing is to be yourself, and have this other person like you for yourself. It must be mutual. The one you settle down with is someone you feel you can trust always.
Power and money are factors to living a happy life. Just factors. You make the best of what you have and continue improving everyday.
<Mind over mistakes>
03-22-02, 06:38 AM
They say that peace is but a pause between the wars. But if that is true, then what is a truce. I shall tell you what. If war is a raging river, and peace is the feeble dam that stands in its way.
Ettys settle, and rocks erode. But a dam falls due to outside influence. Such as a natural disaster, or to much rage and power in the river which it blocks.
Such a philosophy can also be applied to life, particularly in the battle ground of relationships. War is hatred, truce is friendship, and peace is love. So is to say, that all things friendly are blockads for the unfriendly. Hate is eternal, and acceptance and love are but obstacles to be overcome.
In short, this phylosophy is flayed in its entierty. Peace is like summer, war, is like winter, and truce, is their equinox. The more we work towards peace and love, the longer summer will last. The more that we work towards war and hatred, the longer winter will last. But their be no balance between them, no equinox! Summer must be eternal. And winter, merely a distant memory of hatred and loathing. Wich we forget at all costs!
Graytiger
03-22-02, 07:39 AM
"be like water"
People my whole life have told me that I should live and be a certain way, but they never told me how to do this. Fortunately for me, I love to write. I write about everything I learn from books, ideas, how I feel on a given day, anything! One day I put all my ideas and knowledge together, and found out what worked and what didn't work. Doing this set up a guide on the best way to live my life by showing me how to overcome the situations that were destructive.
There are many reasons we strive for change, they can range from the fact that you are board being yourself to there being an earthquake happening under you. The reasons we should change are so that we can improve our lives and ourselves. If all our needs are met then you will have no desire to change. If you wish to stay the same, then you have condemned yourself to an idle mind.
There are two factors involved with the process of change. The first factor is the internal one where we see that things are wrong and wish to change them. Often this is not enough to make a difference so we push it aside and let life continue on. In time, you may feel stuck in that situation again and become discouraged that things are still the same. This may make someone feel that they are not strong enough to make their life take a new turn. This is not the case because internal usually is not enough to find the root problem and change our life or personality. You need the help of the second factor to do this. The second factor is the external one that can come from a change in your health, job, relationship, home, or anything that affects you from outside your mind.
The biggest thing that prevents us from changing our lives is fear. There are three major factors of fear that will hold us back from, or lead us back to, the same situations that are making us feel the way that we do.
The first fear is the fear of the unknown. Who knows what the future holds for us? If you know then you must be a very wealthy person because the wealthiest people are the ones who can predict the future. What about the rest of us who do not know what the future hold in store? What if we make a choice that will not be the best thing for us in the years to come? What if we make the best choice, and we are not strong enough or can’t handle the responsibility? What if this new person won’t be accepted by those who are close to us? Most of the questions that arise when it comes to change can all be put under this fear. Another name for this fear could be a fear of failure.
A good question that can be asked to overcome this fear, when you are dealing with your characteristics or a problem in your life, is the one I use. What will happen to me if I stay in the same situation? Do not ask this question when it comes to things like deciding on a currier choice, or where to invest your money. You should rely on your intelligence for things of this nature, not your emotions. Professionals are out there (like my uncle who sold me a shitty car) and they know how to create desire, and other emotions.
The second fear is losing your self-identity. We are comfortable knowing who we are even if that person is self-destructive. If we try to change anything now, we might lose whom we have gotten to know as being ourselves during the trip. People have their own characteristics and they accept that, but if someone has a characteristic that affects them in a way that is destructive, then it may be best to change that.
The third is the fear of pain. We always try to avoid pain; no one really wants to go through a struggle. When we start to change, we see our faults and this may scare us. We would rather hide the fact that there is something wrong with ourselves instead of facing it. You can find who these people are. They are the ones who always have excuses for every problem in their lives, and they always place the blame on anyone else except themselves.
A journey of 1,000 miles starts with the first step. The first step in changing yourself is to find out who you are. You can do this by taking the self-awareness test. Take the same test over but this time make up the characteristic of the person whom you think would be the perfect (ideal) person. Be 100% honest with your answers because it is helpful to know what kind of person you wish to be.
Now look at this ideal person and tell yourself that this is unreachable. It is not right to be an idealist because ideal means perfect only as an image. In other words you will chase a dream your whole life, or until you just give up on everything. The next thing to do is make a list of all your resources and limitations and then think of a new person that modifies the present you.
To cause change in you, two things must be completed. First, make a list of the things you want out of yourself. Second, make a list of the things that disgust you (weaknesses). When you make this list, it may make you laugh at the fact that you know these things about yourself. The reason you laugh may be because you’re embarrassed about your faults, or maybe someone has told you that you are this way. Now for as many days as it takes only look at your weak self continuously until you hate that person on the paper. You will begin to resent that person who has been holding you back and destroying your happiness. In doing this, you will create a negative force that will push you past the fear of change.
Next, set up a day where you are going to practice some or one of your new traits for one hour or so. In doing this two things will happen. First you increase the strength of that characteristic by practicing it. Second you are exercising that trait and making it grow inside: The same way that you would exercise your muscles.
The ideal way to improve yourself is to lock all the doors in your house and train, or go away and start a new life using these new traits. This is unrealistic and can be unhealthy. You may become arrogant and see the world as being under you because you are becoming what you believe is the ideal person, this thinking will only defeat you in life. Do not forget that we have limitations that will restrict what we can do with ourselves and our life. If you accept these limitations and do not think that you are perfect you will stay righteous. It is of utmost importance that we all accept our limitations because it is the only way to overcome them.
T'ai Kung
Taylor, very interesting perspective. Thanks. :)
You may not have alot of money but you are not poor. You need to break out of the mindset that you are "poor." It is negative thinking and it is therefore self-defeating.
At bottom, I agree with a number of Taylor's points. And disagree with others. With respect to the former, the role of power in a relationship is always present. It is there. You may not perceive it but it is there.
A couple Taylor's points I have experienced personally.
For instance, some years ago I introduced the woman was living with, to a wealthy client of mine and within weeks she dumped me for him. :D Three weeks after dumping me, she got engaged to him, they had a big engagement party and actually put a nonrefundanble $3,500 deposit on a wedding gown. BTW, she lost the deposit once the wedding was called off. Actually, the bridal shop gave her a store credit and she used it to purchase Paul Mitchell hair care products. Ahahahahahaha!!
About four months later she dumped him and tried to get me back. Turned out that in addition to lying to her and saying he was an ex-Navy Seal, he also lied to her about a bunch of other stuff. So yeah, he had money but he had no character.
Personally, I have broken more hearts than times I had mine broken. But I would say the times I grew the most as a human being were those few times when I had my own heart broken. I learned from my mistakes and moved forward.
I always became I better person through defeat and disappointment. Always.
In fact, in large measure it has made who I am today.
And about that Maxim article. No kidding. I am living it right now. I correspond via a email with a very sexy, very attractive, somewhat agressive woman who lives in Toronto. She has been flirting with me for some time. And I with her.
True love is extremely rare. Many people are together because they find in their mate, that the bulk of their needs are met.
Women, because they give birth, have a natural, biological instinct for security. This is not their fault. Fifty thousand years ago the men who were great hunters had more women.
This means finding and attracting a mate who can take care of them and their children.
I disagree about romance. It is very much true and very much alive. Life is far more enjoyable when one is romantic with another. it is FUN!! :D Plus, romance usually leads to sex!!! Which makes it even more fun!! :D And if there is a high degree of trust in the relationship it makes the sex that much better.
I also disagree about Taylor's notion that trust is due to luck or fate. To trust someone is, or should be, a conscious decision. My experience, both personal and professional, is that very few people are worthy of being trusted. Men or women. Generally, it is more prudent to trust very few people. And if you do trust someone, it is preferable to take something of theirs(does not need to be something tangible) as a pledge.
I have long believed that proximity without necessity breeds hatred.
To sum up, yeah I have had my heart broken a few times by women, and I would not have changed that experience at all. It was good for me because it made me realize some of the things I was doing wrong. Then the next relationship I entered into was better, deeper and more meaningful than the previous ones.
To have friends one must be a friend.
BingFa
PS. If there are any single females out there in sonshi.com land, please know that it is Friday night in America and I will read several of Plutarch's essays before I retire to bed at promptly at 9 PM. :D
PS.PS. I also love to do "Spoons." :D Ahahahahahahahaha!!! :D
Sir H. Master
03-22-02, 04:04 PM
Love, life, wives, women, girls.
LOVE IS BIOLOGICAL DETERMINED
Being biologically build, we are a biological slave. Slave to the chemicals in our bodies that make us do things, most of the times, while we don't even know why we do, THAT's WHY we do it.
TaiKung... Love is not war.... you are VERY wrong. LOVE IS WAR. (I'll get back at this later TaiKung)
But first this... (to show the humans still biological inherritence)
Biologists have found out that a man loses his main interest in his wife when his child is atleast 2 or 3 years. Why? Because the man is needed, defending the child prior that childs age. When its 2 or 3 it can walk and has pretty good self-control already. The wife and child could be left alone (if he wished) because they can now survive without his support and the man is free to spread out his DNA yet again. NOTE: could!!
We humans being sorta cut from biological links, due to intelligence, set cultural standards on it too, nowadays. But in cultures were it is sorta allowed, the man will start two-timing his wife MORE when the child is more self-sufficient, because his DNA has survival changes now and his (the mans) presence is not so much needed now.
Most divorces happen whithin the timeframe were the parents child is between 2 to 8 years. Whithout the parents knowing it, biology is working them over.
Now to get back at it: LOVE IS WAR....
Though you speak of a different love concept, I feel the need to point out a research I have read somewhere. It's been a very long time ago, since I read it, so I don't know the source and might also be wrong on some facts of it, but here is the theory for love-making:
Sperm-cells make war!
-------------------------
If a woman (X) and a man (Y) are a pair, but X is two-timing her Y with a man (Z), biology is doing some very interresting things....:
-1- X has merely no part in the sperm-war.
-2- If Y has no idea, of an intruder at work -his female X two-timing him with male Z- then the wife has more changes of getting pregnant from Z then from Y.
-3- If Y does suspect his female of two-timing him with Z, then X has more changed of getting pregnant from Y.
-4- Why? Well it seems not all sperm-cells that a man makes are intended for inpregnating the female. A lot seem to be intended to ATTACK strange sperm cells.
-5- They seem to act like the bodies natural defensive mechanism. Attacking foreign cells. In this case Enemy-sperm-cells!
-6- If Y thinks X is two-timing, his body will build more aggresive sperm-cells to attack foreign bodies, then his body will normally do.
Why these sperm-wars??? Obvious, I think... We are after all Apes!! And in normal ape-sociaty there is just 1 dominant male (unless you are a Bono-chimpansee, or what were they called again?), all other (males and females) have to obey and/or listen to him. But if you are not an Alpha-male but do feel the need to stiffen up your changes, you'll try two-timing, going behind the Alpha-males back. The Alpha-male will keep spreading his DNA. If he sees no danger his sperms will be more calm and have more sperm-cells that will be able to make his females pregnant. If he thinks other males in the group are having a go at HIS females, his sperm-cells will be angry, killing more foreign sperms but with lesser change of him making the penetrated female pregneant. But as he has more 'soldier'-sperm-cells the foreign sperm-cells have lesser change of survival in the dangerous surroundings.
(Believe me, I am not screwing arround, I DID read this somewhere, perhaps someone here read it too and/or knows about it!?!?!)
So....
LOVE (-making) IS WAR!!
So perhaps too...
Learn lotsa Sun-Tzu everyday to prepare your sperm-cells for the war.... Or is that overdoing it? :D
Greetz,
Sir H. Master
P.S.
I myself crave for this kinda various biological knowledge, as I wrote above... So I like your input on such things. As we are already on the MarX Bro's Monkey Buisseness, I wish to give you a very interresting link.
Some people here might know her already from television....
It is Koko, the American-Sign-Languaging-Gorilla (!!!).
...Just because I want all us humans to know we aren't the only smart creatures around...
Link for (the Mountain Gorilla's) Koko's story HERE (http://www.koko.org/).... And be a friend of nature too, as I am.
http://www.koko.org/images/home-tvphoto.jpg
SunZulu
03-22-02, 06:49 PM
Hi Taylor,
"All you men with your wisdom who are responding, I hope you all have had your hearts ripped out by love and then smashed to oblivion. This is my pain. A waking death."
I have been there a couple of times and it is hard to get back on your feet and look at yourself in the mirror. At one point I had nothing left but negative energy.
What you need to do is use that negative energy to help yourself. Make simple plans with achievable short term goals. Learn from your mistakes and from what you did right. Know yourself.
What I did was:
1) I went to the gym and worked out
2) I started saving
3) I went back to school
After I did all these things, I found that what I got for myself is what I gave to myself.
When you are self-transcending you become attractive and then relationships become easier to make and maintain. Your spirit is something that no one can destroy.
Tx Sz
P.S. The book that might interest Sir H. Master is "Mean Genes: From sex to money to food Taming our primal insticts" by Terry Burnham and Jay Phelan
Excellent, excellent.
Quite a few intense soul-brother perspectives. May I say in brief that:
A)TaiKung
Your methodical approach involving lists, your coverage of fear, pain, self-identity is a self-aware format to tie in mind with emotions. I feel fine. It is women who should be reading your post.
I see fear in womens eyes.
When I go out this is what I feel the vibes given off.
B)warlord
Illusions are what bind humans reality together. Pain is real. Everyone gives to get. Even with what they get back is satisfaction. If relationships are there for mutual benefit, then this is getting back.
C)BingFa
What can I say? You do not live in Toronto.
I implore you to live here for a year and tell me otherwise.(unless you have money).
By trust I ment that it is rare.
Overall I agree with you.
But the belief in karma is debatable.
Toronto women are f%!@#$% cold.
I finaly will leave for the US come july and then I can find out about American women.
http://www.sonshi.com/forums/bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000046
D)Mind over mistakes
I am friendly, nice, smile etc. But, it does not matter. The factors are out of my control, I am at the whim of others.
E)Sir H. Master
Totally agree.
Unfortunatly alot of higher level thinking clouds this issue.
F)SunZulu
Funny how us humans play mind games with ourselves, to justify anything. I wish that I had a mind that did not care or was not self-aware. To do without thinking is a brilliant world I would love to be in.
No thought or feelings. Just being. Like a plant. However, unfortunately this is not to be. Unless I had a brain hemmorage. That might not be...
all of you, may I apologize for burdening you with this flaw in the world that I am in.
All of your positivity is energy to create.
Lets start with the premise that the mind models that we use to describe each of our reality's actually create our reality.
Then, lets us take the idea that:
"you get out of it what you put in"
seems reasonable. Makes sense doesn't it?
All the women I have been with I loved.
They are all gone. I guess it was me.
But then I talk to other men and find out they have had similar experiences. So it is not just me.
I have had people wonder to me why I do not have a woman. If they only knew the s#%# and rejections I have been thru.
Is loneliness hate?
Is frustration bitterness?
My problem is that I care too much.
This is my weakness.
Why is it that I think/feel that a woman should be with me?
Am I insane?
Why try? I ask myself this alot.
I would love the opportunity to go inside others brains/minds and see if humans actually think alike.
For the more I talk to others, I am troubled by my observations coming into conflict with what others say.
If I like a woman, I know the score.
You don't ask them out;
If you have to, then nothing is gonna happen.
It just is.
Also, the more I try, the less result I get.
Again, it just is.
Romance only works with someone who likes you already; hence in our age there is a dearth of it; ask any woman and she'll tell you there is not enough romance.
I love romance. Heck, I would love to be involved with a woman right now.
The question is,
does frustration=bitterness?
I will tell you gentleman I am not picky, if I was I would never have been laid.
If appearance is a stumbling block, let me inform you that my second girlfriend was 5'6" 150lbs. I (me) have been rejected by fat women. Fine.
The attitude I get, is that they are either insecure or gods gift.
Right. Well so am I.
I too am human.
My observations have also led me to find the paradox that I need to meet 100 woman before I meet the right one, yet on the other hand, once your actually do get down to brass tacks, then there are all these other factors to find if you will stay together.
It is maddenng, because I am getting older and I do not like to waste time.
It is not special to meet the right one, after 100 times because
1) you can be replaced at anytime
2) to have to go thru that many just shows that it is a numbers game; there is nothing special in that
Bloody games!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why can't it be easier? I thought it would as I got older, but then I have to remember all the rules that go along with it.
Now finally, as this forum is about strategy and you have all come for knowledge may I share this with you:
As a commader, having an enemy is far easier than dealing with women. The enemys place is well defined. His role gives purpose.
The enemy is your friend, to be trusted and to be loved.
" Since when do you have to tell the enemy that he has won ?"
" I am your enemy, the first one you've ever had who was smarter than you. There is no teacher but the enemy. No one but the enemy will ever tell you what the enemy is going to do. No one but the enemy will ever teach you how to destroy and conquer. Only the enemy shows you where you are weak. Only the enemy tells you where he is strong. And the only rules of the game are what you can do to him and what you can stop him from doing to you. I am your enemy from now on. From now on I am your teacher. "
" One is never too old to be a student of the enemy. "
" I did something they didn't think an enemy would ever do. "
Mazer Rackham
Women are beyond being enemies or friends or lovers or (I can't describe to you my thought, please fill in the blanks _______.)
I have been destroyed by them, created by them. I have ignored them and been attentive.
What can I say?
Gentlemen, at this stage, I wish I could all take you to utopia/nirvanna and we could all have a splendid orgy.
As it is, have a dream on me.
May one day, we can be together as fellow soldiers/strategists/commanders and fight to conquer the world as one.
I salute you all!
SunZulu
03-22-02, 09:30 PM
" F)SunZulu
Funny how us humans play mind games with ourselves, to justify anything. I wish that I had a mind that did not care or was not self-aware. To do without thinking is a brilliant world I would love to be in.
No thought or feelings. Just being. Like a plant. However, unfortunately this is not to be. Unless I had a brain hemmorage. That might not be..."
Dao De Jing excerpt:
Search for enlightenment; it will not be found.
Likened to a clear pond muddied by movement,
so is the mind when it is roused from its original state.
Therefore, the sage is able to see the universe without opening his door.
Sir H. Master:
Thank you for the very informative science lesson. It’s a common mistake but sex is not love. Sounds like the war is inside you’re pants! :D
Sunzulu:
Brilliant and simple. Make short-term goals for yourself. I’m sure a good portion of us had our souls ripped out (including myself). 10 years latter it still hurts to think about her. It still sucks when I see her and hear what’s going on in her life. I say to myself “why couldn’t I be part of the changes she went through”. What I do know is I’m embarrassed and I’m afraid. The only thing that helped me feel a little better was:
Quote:
1) I went to the gym and worked out
2) I started saving
3) I went back to school
4) Kept in close with friends who would work with me as a team.
I’m not going to be alone forever as I originally thought. One day another girl will come along and fill this space in my heart. If I stay true to my heart and build a big enough net, who knows what the tides will bring in.
Taylor, I think if you read some Friedrich Nieztsche he would cheer you up. :rolleyes:
BingFa :cool:
Friedrich Nieztsche never had a woman for a long period of time. Why would I want to read him? Didn't he live at home with his mother and sisters?
Thank you for the suggestion.
Okay, then read some Schopenhauer. He always cheered me up when Nietsczhe didn't. :D
Schopenhauer's essay titled, "On Women" is a hoot. :D
I don't know about Friedrich's living arrangements. But if what you say is true, I'll bet Friedrich had one helluva time trying to get access to the bathroom in the morning. On a more positive note, at least he did not have to fight with the females of the house over control of the TV clicker. :D
BingFa :cool:
warlord
03-26-02, 07:13 AM
There is a Zun Tzu commentary quote somewhere that reads "sieze what she loves and she will heed you." Couple this with: "if one acts consistently to train the woman the woman will submit" and "one who acts consistently is in accord with the multitude."
A woman is like your shadow,
follow her she flies away,
fly away and she follows
Man desires a woman,
A woman desires the desire of the man
Men like women in general but not individual women,
Women like individual men but not men in general
Oriental Proverbs
warlord
03-27-02, 03:07 AM
...She can try to resist
but you know, but you know,
she can't fight the moonlight
noo-ooo she can't fight iiit.
It's gonna get to her haa-aart.
SunZulu
04-01-02, 04:24 PM
Hi Taylor,
You once called women materialistic and couldn't figure out why.
Here is why. They get pregnant. They are helpless for a period of time and need someone’s support. If the man they are with can not show the ability to provide support then they are considered a liability not only to the woman but to their child. In ancient days physical fitness would indicate a prowess to defend and support the family. Now that prowess is shown with the ability to provide financial security.
Tx Sz
<gobjMasterChief>
04-30-02, 11:22 PM
Check out NickJr.com for a little Flash story...
A kid bug had no friends. His mom told him to find some. He kept asking (DEMANDING) other bugs to play with him and they all said "no thanks." He got madder and madder each time, and finally very sad. He found a nice squishy mushroom and started jumping on it. Started having lots of fun (created his own). All those other bugs saw this and asked "can we play with you?"
Nice little (kids) story huh? Guess what? Most of us never really grow up. Should we?
You have a kind soul (I think).
"You must GIVE respect to get respect, DEMAND respect only when necessary."
-A friend (slight mod from me)
-Use this as a rule of thumb in LIFE
"Learn wherever you are."
-Billboard in Ft. Lauderdale airport
Originally posted by Taylor:
Friedrich Nieztsche never had a woman for a long period of time. Why would I want to read him? Didn't he live at home with his mother and sisters?
Thank you for the suggestion.
I am not sure of the above. But I am relatively sure that he slowly died from madness caused by syphilis. Also, while he had interesting insights on women (and many other subjects), I think one needs to take him with a grain of salt -- many grains of salt, actually.
The man was a human being with highly advanced philosophical skills trying to figure out things and with a style of stating his thoughts like he were some omnipotent God (not unlike some of us here ;)).
Despite his strong tone, I think Nietzsche meant well for his readers, looking to strengthen the quality of their life and spirit -- something his work can definitely help with, provided you remember the grains of salt mentioned above!
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