01.008 Therefore, compare them by means of calculation...

Therefore, compare them by means of calculation, and determine their statuses.

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I agree totally with the administrator's interpretation regarding this Sun Tzu entry.

It is crucial and of basic intelligence for a leader to calculate carefully his own strengths and weaknesses before presuming the outcome of a battle in question. Equally important is the act of calculating the enemy's strengths and weaknesses and adjusting your strategy in accordance with elements that fall in your favor.

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The use of strength/weakness sounds like gurrilla warfare to me!

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Now guerilla warfare is something which the general must be sure of the strengths and weaknesses. If he is not, then his attacks will not be efficient enough. If he knows the enemy's strengths and weaknesses, then he can attack with speed, and defend with mystery.

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Re: [01.008] Therefore, compare them by means of calculation...

quote:

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Originally posted by sonshi
Therefore, compare them by means of calculation, and determine their statuses.

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Yeah, I agree

Here too, Sun Tzu comes back to the idea of doing estimates.

One of things that Sun Tzu assumes is that the General will already have in place a system of intelligence gathering that will feed info into the General so that he has the raw data to make the necessary calculations.

Also, in the cited excerpt, I discern an all-encompassing meaning to the phrase "determine their statuses." To me, this sweeping meaning means to calculate and be aware of the entire human condition that is affected by going to war.

The provisions and logistics. The courage and morale of the troops. The terrain. The weather. The force structure of both armies. The factors of Time and Space. Leadership and troop training. Discipline. Weapons systems. Vulnerabilities. Water.

Everything.

Weaknesses and strengths run the gamut and encompass a myriad of factors, a small portion of which are directly identified by The Sun Tzu.

And I agree with sonshi that there is a premium placed on an objective assessment. And I will go further and say that this is so because Generals should be perceptive of reality.

That may sound easy but many folks are not grounded in reality but instead are unduly influenced by others, TV, newspapers, media, etc., hence to a large extent, one's 'reality' is distorted and skewed. Thus, I conclude that people who harbor strong biases generally make ineffective leaders because they are too easily swayed and end up being biased about the wrong things and in the wrong directions.

In a word, ineffective leaders have a perception of reality that is distorted. By contrast, genuine leaders value truth and objectivity about reality.

Therefore, in Washington, DC, we seem stuck with a US Congress who are politicians and are NOT true leaders (despite what they might think). Politicians see and hear what they want to see and hear and their sychophant staffs arrange this to be so.

Leaders on the other hand will generally loathe having yes-men and sychophants around them. Ask any General.

Having Yes-Men around them undermines the effectiveness of true leaders while putting their carreer advancement at risk. And in an Army where lives are at stake, a true leader prizes an objective assessment of reality because he knows the lives of his men ride on the outcome of his decisions.

BingFa

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This is a familiar concept from business classes in college, where we discussed something called a SWOT analysis (strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, threats).

Strengths/Weaknesses tended to focus more on Us vs. Competitor (ground/law)

Opportunities/Threats was more the outside environment (heaven)

Concepts like the Way and General didn't really enter the picture at the time, and in the real world ego keeps them from from being issues during brainstorming sessions. In any case, the idea is to help understand how the company should go forward.

It's not uncommon for good businesses to go through something like this during annual planning discussions or when exploring a new concept.

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Sun Wu says to look at your army/organization and compare it with the one of your opponent. Is it not about the quality of information we have about them and ourselves?

• How accurate information we have?
  
• Is it coming from the reliable source?
  
• Is it up-to-date or outdated?
  

It is funny to see how human race more than 2000 years ago already knew the concept of SWOT (Strengths Weaknesses Opportunities Threats). The only difference they did not need this fancy acronym.

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work alone or with the staff?

Sun Tzu repeats himself here (see passage 01.002 of Sonshi' translation), in order to introduce the concrete method of determining the statuses. After he presents the five factors, he must draw attention to the actual method. Means of calculation depend on the available information. More detail, better insight in the model. In the modern times this would be the job of his staff, which he would direct. So the only question i ask is if this task is performed by a group rather than a single individual in the ancient times. How many could read and write then? How much is the general doing by himself? he must draw the conclusion alone I think, and be sure he got all the relevant data. tough job..

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“Therefore, compare them by means of calculation, and determine their statuses.”

I would tread lightly when “comparing them by means of calculation” – and determining their statuses. Is he/she attempting to offer you a ruse? How does one gain this information without falling prey to the enemies’ deception? It is human nature to over compensate where our weaknesses are involved - in an attempt to disguise them as strengths, and on the opposite end of the spectrum we tend to underestimate our own strengths and ultimately take them for granted. Would it not be wise to consider this when “determining their statuses”? Too often, even when dealing on an interpersonal level with others, we misjudge the intentions of others because of mirroring our own aspirations – or believing that others share our goals. When in reality – they may not.

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You must analyze your strenths and weaknesses as much as your opponents.

Gonzo

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Re: 01.008 Therefore, compare them by means of calculation...

quote:

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Originally posted by sonshi
Therefore, compare them by means of calculation, and determine their statuses.

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Interpretation

Open translation: "Therefore, compare them by carefully appraising ...."

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quote:

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Therefore, compare them by means of calculation, and determine their statuses.

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Compare where you are strong vs. where your enemy is weak. Compare where your enemy is strong and KNOW where you are weak. With the elements Sun Tzu gives us earlier in this chapter, we have a means by which to compare us to our enemy and incorporating outside influences (such as “heaven”). These attributes and elements give us a frame of reference for comparing and calculating.

The status of each element will guide you in designing your strategy.

On a personal note, I believe that this frame of reference (the elements and attributes Sun Tzu uses to compare and calculate) can be adapted to any number of situations outside of true warfare. The frame of reference may need slight modification, but in any situation that requires logic, critical thinking, and strategy, it can be used as an effective guide to “The Way”, or the best possible solution.

Toker

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you must calculate the various factors, and see which ones have the statistical out come that you need for whatever situation you are in. what you have to do, to get what you need done. Am i being to short? I am doing my best to keep up with you guys.....

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