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Old 09-06-10, 03:04 PM
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Default Larry Ellison makes Mark Hurd Co-President, sending terrible message to women

Larry Ellison, one of America's richest individuals and CEO of Oracle Corporation just made Mark Hurd Co-President of Oracle. Mark Hurd used to be the CEO of Hewlett-Packard (HP); he was fired because he violated company policies by falsifying his expense reports, but what started the investigation was an inappropriate relationship with a female HP contractor.

None of that may matter much to most of you except Larry Ellison is a big fan of Sun Tzu, but because of this recent decision, I cannot help but make it be known here my disappointment in that decision. It sends a terrible message (inadvertently or not) to businesswomen and to young girls everywhere who want to go into business.

Oracle doesn't represent the business world of course but it is a big company, employing thousands of women, including countless women as their investors, vendors, and customers. Of the Fortune 500 companies only 15 of them have women CEOs. Any man raised right will know his mother can do a better job than many celebrity CEOs out there! So let's get serious shall we? It's about time we do what's right for companies and maximize their values instead of enlarging egos.

Oracle stock closed at $22.92 a share on Friday. Let's see how well it fares a year from now, or the day before Mark Hurd leaves Oracle, whichever comes first.
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Old 09-11-10, 01:59 AM
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I don't think it will hurt them that badly, remember they have had a near absolute monopoly on the database market since they acquired sun micro-systems little over a year ago.

Remember the CEO is elected by the board of directors. Sometimes introducing some momentary instability can be profitable as it causes the stock price to rise and fall rapidly or the other way around like yin and yang. Remember long term stability though secure isn't very profitable.

Plus the CEO who already has a bad rep can be the fall guy if the company does badly and fireing him later can boost the morale of stock holders if they need to do so in the future.

I liken people such as Hurd to using condoms to avoid catching STD's. When the deed is done simply dispose of it and apologize on his behalf. The company's reputation remains intact and all is good.

This is why I don't believe in corporations as it makes it profitable for the leadership to poison the company.
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Old 09-11-10, 02:20 AM
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Thanks for your reply, Ferroto. I was starting to wonder if anybody here follows business news.

I understand the benefits of stock movement/activity but was referring to a more permanent, sustainable advance in the company's value. A better decision would have been to promote Safra Catz to CEO and solidify the succession plan and to send a clear message to the business world that business ethics do matter to help build partnerships, spread trust with customers, and augment the Way with employees. What goes on in business must be reflective of what we like to see in society, to be its example, especially since it's a more controllable microcosm of society.

To put in a guy, Mark Hurd, who a few months ago was lying on his expense reports so he can hide an extramarital affair with an HP contractor seems impulsive. Oracle investors are biting (damn the principles! they seem to say), but until this Hurd albatross flies away, the ones who win in the end are Oracle's competitors -- and contrarian investors selling and/or shorting ORCL.

Thus a fan of Sun Tzu would have the backbone to reverse the decision and send an even bigger message. Consider it an act of courage that would outlast philanthropic endeavors of so many now or before. Businessmen do things right during and within business hours, not outside of them.
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Old 09-13-10, 03:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by sonshi
Thanks for your reply, Ferroto. I was starting to wonder if anybody here follows business news.

I understand the benefits of stock movement/activity but was referring to a more permanent, sustainable advance in the company's value. A better decision would have been to promote Safra Catz to CEO and solidify the succession plan and to send a clear message to the business world that business ethics do matter to help build partnerships, spread trust with customers, and augment the Way with employees. What goes on in business must be reflective of what we like to see in society, to be its example, especially since it's a more controllable microcosm of society.

To put in a guy, Mark Hurd, who a few months ago was lying on his expense reports so he can hide an extramarital affair with an HP contractor seems impulsive. Oracle investors are biting (damn the principles! they seem to say), but until this Hurd albatross flies away, the ones who win in the end are Oracle's competitors -- and contrarian investors selling and/or shorting ORCL.

Thus a fan of Sun Tzu would have the backbone to reverse the decision and send an even bigger message. Consider it an act of courage that would outlast philanthropic endeavors of so many now or before. Businessmen do things right during and within business hours, not outside of them.
The problem is that most businessmen will favor Sun-Tzu's tactics when building a business. But once a company has the market dominance oracle has the leadership becomes arrogant and believes that it is invincible. Thus they start playing games such as this.

Bill Gates once said "Success is a menace, it fools smart people into thinking they can't loose."

Also on that topic if anyone wants to see Sun-Tzu's tactics in the business world. They should watch the "Pirates of Silicon Valley" it basically documents how Microsoft and Apple came to be and how Microsoft exploited IBM execs ignorance of the immerging software industry to make DOS an industry standard operating system.
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Old 09-13-10, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ferroto
The problem is that most businessmen will favor Sun-Tzu's tactics when building a business. But once a company has the market dominance oracle has the leadership becomes arrogant and believes that it is invincible. Thus they start playing games such as this.

Bill Gates once said "Success is a menace, it fools smart people into thinking they can't loose."

Also on that topic if anyone wants to see Sun-Tzu's tactics in the business world. They should watch the "Pirates of Silicon Valley" it basically documents how Microsoft and Apple came to be and how Microsoft exploited IBM execs ignorance of the immerging software industry to make DOS an industry standard operating system.
No, the problem is these lazy businessmen can't seem to finish the book before spouting off quotes out of context they understand nothing about.
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Old 09-16-10, 12:28 AM
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Default Re: Larry Ellison makes Mark Hurd Co-President, sending terrible message to women

Quote:
Originally posted by sonshi

None of that may matter much to most of you except Larry Ellison is a big fan of Sun Tzu, but because of this recent decision, I cannot help but make it be known here my disappointment in that decision. It sends a terrible message (inadvertently or not) to businesswomen and to young girls everywhere who want to go into business.

Prior to the public learning about Hurd's problem, Ellison praised him as one of the best executives in the industry. Ellison is likely using him to further the goals of Oracle. I think Sun Tzu would understand.
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Old 09-16-10, 08:12 AM
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Did everybody miss the fact that outside of the ethical issues of late, Hurd is a proven brilliant leader.

HP's stock dropped not because of an incurred bad reputation on the company but because Hurd "resigned" and was no longer going to be leading them. He has intimate knowledge of HP's business. He legally is not free without consequence to disclose HP trade secrets but there is no ruling against him running Oracle with his inside knowledge, nor do I think there should be. As well, it is quite likely that Hurd will want to redeem himself.

Ellison has chosen a very capable leader with something to prove. Oracle is likely to benefit from this move.

Ethics are obviously important in business and do play a role in connectiveness throughout a company. Saying that, the decision to hire Mark Hurd should not be determined by whether or not this move may be received as a bad message to business women unless it poses to effect people's willingness to follow him in the company. I would surmise that this is far from the case.

Sunzi pushes rational decisions based on strategic advantages determined through calculations. Decisions based on subjective moral ideals and public opinions from people who don't have a clue what's best for the company are not in line with Sunzi's teachings.

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Old 09-16-10, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dragon
Did everybody miss the fact that outside of the ethical issues of late, Hurd is a proven brilliant leader.

HP's stock dropped not because of an incurred bad reputation on the company but because Hurd "resigned" and was no longer going to be leading them. He has intimate knowledge of HP's business. He legally is not free without consequence to disclose HP trade secrets but there is no ruling against him running Oracle with his inside knowledge, nor do I think there should be. As well, it is quite likely that Hurd will want to redeem himself.

Ellison has chosen a very capable leader with something to prove. Oracle is likely to benefit from this move.

Ethics are obviously important in business and do play a role in connectiveness throughout a company. Saying that, the decision to hire Mark Hurd should not be determined by whether or not this move may be received as a bad message to business women unless it poses to effect people's willingness to follow him in the company. I would surmise that this is far from the case.

Sunzi pushes rational decisions based on strategic advantages determined through calculations. Decisions based on subjective moral ideals and public opinions from people who don't have a clue what's best for the company are not in line with Sunzi's teachings.
That's your opinion. In my opinion, Hurd is neither a leader nor brilliant. If he was either, he wouldn't have been fired by HP with cause. HP understood that if he was allowed to continue to work there, his leadership and brilliance (if any) would be ineffectual with the troops, making Hurd even more hated, which is amazing given his already low rating among the rank and file. Sun Tzu would call this a severe lack of the Tao.

I'm sick and tired of people who only focus on the money, as if ethics have nothing to do with it, as if it washes away the faults. Integrity is paramount in business because the trust of customers, employees, partners, and vendors is critical! People like Hurd, and anyone who supports them, baffle me -- especially when there are too many honest, bright, and talented individuals capable of doing the work for less than half the price.

And I would guarantee she would be more in line with Sun Tzu's teachings than Hurd ever was.
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Old 09-17-10, 04:39 AM
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The problem I see is the following line.

"All warfare is based on deception."

Most people read that in the Art of War and think that it's a license to be as deceptive as they want, in reality that applies to war which as sun-tzu said should NOT be prolonged. However some business base deception as a longterm strategy, thus they eventually loose the Tao and the conficence of there customers\shareholders.

Many execs looking to make a quick buck will undermine the longterm success of the business to momentarily expand it beyond it's means. That's the same as tearing up the flooring on the main level so you floor the upstairs.
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Old 09-17-10, 11:27 AM
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Hurd is probably the only type of exec I know who would in 2008 boast about cutting his pay (10% versus 5% he made all employees take a cut) but was somehow paid more by the end of 2008. In fact, he was paid $43 million, making him the 4th highest paid CEO that year. He really thought HP employees were too stupid to realize cutting his base pay isn't the same as cutting his actual take home pay from bonuses and stock options. In other words, he cut all employees' paychecks to meet his bonus goals and the money went in his pocket as reward for good decision making! Some leader, huh? Is it any wonder he was rated the lowest of all technology CEOs by his own people, those who know him best?

Looks like you don't need to wait a year to see what happens. Short ORCL now because this is a rare opportunity. It's $27.48/share because apparently there are those out there who think hiring Hurd was a good thing. Contrarian investing is about capitalizing on ignorance.
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Old 09-21-10, 12:53 PM
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http://www.marketwatch.com/video/ass...E-38F7994ECA82
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Old 09-25-10, 05:57 PM
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Look, the point of my entire thread is sometimes a businessman can be smart in one area but rarely smart in all -- and, in this case, incredibly stupid. As if cost-cutting CEOs are so rare that Oracle has to sift through the damaged-goods bin.
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Old 11-05-10, 05:59 PM
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I told you so.

Does it mean that with the fine example set by Oracle's new Co-President that the employees can do the same thing, too?

The sad part about this whole thing is that Hurd ended up richer and with another job a few weeks later. How many still unemployed people are out there who are honest and hardworking that Hurd had laid off?
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