01.019 Many calculations, victory...

[sonshi]

Many calculations, victory, few calculations, no victory, then how much less so when no calculations? By means of these, I can observe them, beholding victory or defeat!

I have always believe that it is better to overplan than to underplan.
It is always to have a half-baked plan than to have no plan.

Calculations in a plan is based on "What will happen" and "what -if" type of scenarios.

However, the wise strategist always knows when to quit calculating and start executing (the plan).

[me]

Practical experience has taught me that the teachings of Sun Tzu, (and many other great thinkers), do deserve actual practice, real time in the real world before you truly accept the teachings.

I have found for myself, in most conflicts, usually business related not being a professional soldier in the truest sense, the teachings are real. Before engaging in serious conflict/war I have already experienced the battle from both sides, lost and won from both perspectives, accepted defeat and achieved the vistory from both sides...here I am then capable of seeing the conclusions from both sides before the battle.
It may sound like unecessary over-kill or work, but in critical battles with formidable opponents, who at times may initially hold an advantage...by having performed this exercise before the conflict is initiated, the advantages I have usually outnumber the ones they thought they had.

Careful consideration of all the calculations create a strategy rarely expected by an opponent who feels strength is invincible.

Funny part about it all...the work I do to prepare is easier when the opponent does think it is all powerful!

Ego is a weakness...mine has done little good when I have tried to use it for anything...darn thing does like to hang around though!!!

Take care, nice space, Sonshi...always a nice place to ponder a thought.

me

Always remember that
"Preparation Precedes Performance".

Again, although I concede that it is vital to plan, I am not convinced as some might be, that going through the actions of "creating many calculations" will necessarily lead to victory.

For instance, the so-called "Whiz Kids" that Robert McNamara brought over to the Pentagon from private industry, seemed to have been obsessed with their slide rulers back in the 1960s and were no doubt responsible for the deaths of countless Vietnamese and Americans.

Like most of The Sun Tzu, I think nearly all of his passages have deep meanings that are inextricably linked and form a unity of sorts with other sections.

When Sun Tzu wrote "creating many calculations" I think what he was really emphasizing was the unspoken fact that in warfare the involvement of human beings, when combined with their physical environment, is an enormously complex situation that requires serious, directed study and contemplation BEFORE going to battle. Thus, it has been said that the best Generals win their battles long before the actual battle takes place on the field.

Granted, making many calculations is definately a prequisite to achieving victory. However, it is equally important to also be making the CORRECT calculations.

And therein lies the essence of true military genius.

-BingFa

[markb287]

"Many calculations, victory, few calculations, no victory, then how much less so when no calculations? By means of these, I can observe them, beholding victory or defeat!"-Sun-tzu.

If one makes makes many calculations so that nothing can surprise him, then he will definitely win. If he does not make many calculations, then he may not win. And what if he doesn't even make any calculations? Then he will have to rely on the strength of his army, and not the strategy of winning.

[UV]

Calculations are time-bounded.

You sometimes have the luxury of more time and sometimes the misfortune of less time.

You may also have the option of proactively buying time or "creating" time in order to complete more calculations, and thus increase your likelihood of victory.

It is ideal if you select the time of engagement rather than having your adversary select it for you, and thus dictate to you the time available for calculations.

[WayFinder]

Originally posted by BingFa

Granted, making many calculations is definately a prequisite to achieving victory. However, it is equally important to also be making the CORRECT calculations.

And therein lies the essence of true military genius.

-BingFa

BingFa, that was an insightful interpretation. And what a tremendous difference it makes when you approach the phrase from that perspective.

[me]

I agree Bing Fa, correct is the "key" word in calculations. In my opinion only, another "key" factor is to calculate that your calculations could be incorrect , then taking that in account, recalculate.

(smile)...subjectivity is difficult to overcome, but it is imperative before doing any battle to consider one's flaws and weaknesses when ego may reside in the equation.

Here is where, in my opinion only, the greater the enemy's ego, the wider the gap exists to calculate an attack successfully...providing that is the only conclusion.

me

"Admitting I could be wrong is a calculation that often allows me to be right." m.e. (smile)

[UV]

Calculations, and the need/desire for more of them, should not paralyze action.

I think it Ross Perot who said of one large company that when managers in that company at that time saw a snake on the factory floor, they created a committee to study snakes.

[USMCFERG]

Often quoted, but not nearly as often used:

A good battle plan that you act on today can be better than a perfect one tomorrow.

Gen George S. Patton

Patton Quotes

S/F

It is interesting that the quality of calculation has not been taken into account. It makes no difference that one does a large number of "brute force" calculations if distinctions of the problem are not clearly understood. As such, one's numerous (forgive the pun) calculations, especially under circumstances in which the ultimate number of calculations is not exhaustive, would perhaps lead one to the wrong conclusion(s). If clearly the problem is clearly understood, perhaps only a few calculations need be made. This is the height of genius.

[MonteChristo]

The fact that victory can be predicted before the battle was carried out tells us that this is not a mystery. It is based on a common sense. Yet still examples of battles, victories and defeats can be observed throughout the history.

Probably many battles and wars could be avoided when proper calculations were made or war operations carried out in the way causing the least number of casualties.

By the end of the day it all depends on people, however this should not stop us from studying and applying Sun Tzu teachings in life. In such a way we can increase our chances to be successful.

[gonzo]

Again SunTzu was trying to press the importants of making calculations. If you know what you are facing, you can prepare for it. You must know strong points, weak points, and worthless points. You must plan what you are going to do, what your opponent's reactions may be. You must plan a logistical supply to insure success.

Gonzo

[Theo17]

the more percise and thought out your plans are the better, try to keep sharp, and don't go blindly rushing in with some make shift plan.


thats it for calculations, hey guys am i doing OK?