Sonshi Forum Home | Forum Home | Chat Room   
Profile, private messages, and subscribed threads Register to become a member and be able to post messages Calendar to set up private events and view public events Frequently asked questions about this forum and its features Search for keywords or by user name  
Sonshi Forum Sonshi Forum > Sun Tzu Art of War Explained > Two: Doing Battle > 02.009 Therefore, if one is not fully cognizant of the dangers...
Pages (3): [1] 2 3 »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Post A Reply
sonshi
Founder
02.009 Therefore, if one is not fully cognizant of the dangers...

Therefore, if one is not fully cognizant of the dangers inherent in doing battle, one cannot fully know the benefits of doing battle.

__________________
Sign up for the indispensable Sonshi Daily

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-01-02 09:00 PM
sonshi is offline Click Here to See the Profile for sonshi Click here to Send sonshi a Private Message Visit sonshi's homepage! Find more posts by sonshi Add sonshi to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
markb287
Full Member

"Therefore, if one is not fully cognizant of the dangers inherent in doing battle, one cannot fully know the benefits of doing battle."-Sun-tzu.

Therefore, if the general doesn't know what can and can't happen, then he won't be able to know how to gain advantages.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-20-02 09:15 PM
markb287 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for markb287 Click here to Send markb287 a Private Message Find more posts by markb287 Add markb287 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
BingFa
Guest

A wise General must choose his battles carefully and must weigh the risks of battle against the potential advantages.

Committing men to battle is a most serious undertaking and should only be done after extensive preparation and planning.

Generals must be aware of the costs and benefits of waging war and even then, should only engage the enemy when they positively know that the enemy can be defeated.

-BingFa

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-24-02 12:24 AM
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
willatlasshrug
Full Member

If a leader is not aware of the costs and consequences of leading an organization, they cannot fully understand the benefits achieved by leading that organization well.

You are more likely to make the best decision if you understand the consequences of making the wrong decision.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-26-02 06:09 PM
willatlasshrug is offline Click Here to See the Profile for willatlasshrug Click here to Send willatlasshrug a Private Message Find more posts by willatlasshrug Add willatlasshrug to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Cardinal999
Full Member (S)
ANOTHERRRRRRRRR POV

quote:
Originally posted by sonshi
Therefore, if one is not fully cognizant of the dangers inherent in doing battle, one cannot fully know the benefits of doing battle.


One's has to know all of the variables in the "prep" process and then "prepare" himself for those possible situations before the conflict is initialized.

__________________
Respectfully Yours,


{* CARDINAL999 *}

"In the Field of Observation, Fortune Favors the Prepared (and the Bold)."


"The stillness in stillness is not the true stillness; only when there is stillness in motion does the universal rhythm manifest." - Old Daoist Text

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-15-02 12:14 AM
Cardinal999 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Cardinal999 Click here to Send Cardinal999 a Private Message Find more posts by Cardinal999 Add Cardinal999 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
gonzo
Full Member (S)

Stressing the message that if you arent aware of what you're doing, then the benefits will be small.

Gonzo

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-16-02 03:29 PM
gonzo is offline Click Here to See the Profile for gonzo Click here to Send gonzo a Private Message Find more posts by gonzo Add gonzo to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
MonteChristo
Full Member

You can only benefit in battle if it is short and minimum resources were lost on both sides. The idea behind battle is not to win, but to increase resources and improve your overall strategic position. Loosing resources or wearing them out in long campaigns does not improve anyone’s position.

__________________
MonteChristo
And there is only blue sky above us.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-18-02 04:48 PM
MonteChristo is offline Click Here to See the Profile for MonteChristo Click here to Send MonteChristo a Private Message Find more posts by MonteChristo Add MonteChristo to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
HALBLEU
Full Member

The Supreme Strategist General (SSG) has the "professional and personal awareness and experience" to understand the grand picture in reference to the positives and negatives that are involved in a war

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 01-05-03 05:32 AM
HALBLEU is offline Click Here to See the Profile for HALBLEU Click here to Send HALBLEU a Private Message Find more posts by HALBLEU Add HALBLEU to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
SunZulu
Guest

Sun Tzu said, "Therefore, if one is not fully cognizant of the dangers inherent in doing battle, one cannot fully know the benefits of doing battle."

Even in the best of battles you will lose something. You should always try to understand the potential risk of your actions and then compare them to the potential benefits.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 03-31-03 01:10 AM
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
nightwolf
No longer a member

"Therefore, if one is not fully cognizant of the dangers inherent in doing battle, one cannot fully know the
benefits of doing battle. "

when you know which are the dangers and risks of a war (and especially of a long war), you can avoid the strategic options that will lead your army to defeat.

__________________
Odysseus Nobody

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-21-03 03:53 PM
nightwolf is offline Click Here to See the Profile for nightwolf Click here to Send nightwolf a Private Message Find more posts by nightwolf Add nightwolf to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Dan
Full Member

quote:
Therefore, if one is not fully cognizant of the dangers inherent in doing battle, one cannot fully know the benefits of doing battle.


If you don't know how badly the war can turn out, you won't prepare for the worst and you'll end up with less then you might have. If you win but it costs more than not fighting would ahve then you have lost. So calculate what the war will cost before fighting and you'll be able to calculate what best to do.

__________________
Dan

"Never let morality stop you from doing what is right." Character from the Foundation series by Isaac Asimov

"Never let the righteous stop you from doing what is moral." SunZulu

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-06-03 03:12 AM
Dan is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Dan Click here to Send Dan a Private Message Find more posts by Dan Add Dan to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
dej2
Full Member
02.009 Therefore, if one is not fully cognizant of the dangers...

Therefore, if one is not fully cognizant of the dangers inherent in doing battle, one cannot fully know the benefits of doing battle.
Sawyer’s Translation
"Those who do not thoroughly comprehend the dangers inherent in employing the army are incapable of truly knowing the potential advantages of military actions.

Generals that abuse the resources, manpower and finances of the state may cause a whole nation to suffer or even become totally extinct from not realizing the dangers brought forth from warfare. Not to exclude the death and alienation of another people and/or culture, as well as instilling of hatred and mistrust between two or more societies.
For if a general does not recognize the risks taken, how can they recognize the benefits gained by warfare. Outside of insuring the safety and livelihood of it's own people, are wars of conquest really worth the sacrifice in provisions, manpower and life? What is gained, some properties, how productive can a workforce of subjugated people be? What is the possibility of rebellion from these people to gain back what once was lost?

My personal opinion, outside of national defense, is there a real purpose to wage war? In the end much will one nation truly profit by the waging war.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-17-03 09:04 PM
dej2 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for dej2 Click here to Send dej2 a Private Message Find more posts by dej2 Add dej2 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
pawn11
Full Member
Rosa Parks

I continue to frustrated by the text..partly because I have insufficient time with which to enjoy it's analysis. I will pose a question to others of which I do not know the answer to. Did Rosa Parks understand the implications of her actions when she refused to sit at the back of the back of the bus. Did Martin Luther King fully comphrehend the implications of his speeches.."I have a dream."

Would they have done the things they did if they had taken the time to read this text and have the benefit of modern conviences like computers, email and internet chat rooms. It would seem clear that although their actions would be defeated by convention calculations and math but still were ultimatelt were successful.

Cival rights. Do they still exist and does the average smoe like me have a chance to make a difference or is the best altenative anger management therapy and a moderate does of prozac.

Is this phenoma of the Matrix movies really just a reflection of the stuggles we all face in life. Conflicts within ourselves and external battles that really push my buttons but are really not that important...but are they. I feel that when a person is the victim of theft in any respect there ought to be some remedy...somewhere someday and maybe this wonderful forum is one of societies best attemptsat making some allowance for fairness. I firmly believe that the smallest units in society ultimately carry the most weight but which are ultimatly disenfranchised and left in precarious position with which to defend their cival liberities in any respect. It's frustating and it also makes me angry but ultimately anger is weapon pouinted at ones own heart not others. I feel today that by being couragous enough to admit anger and identify it's source goes along way in empower a schmoe to experience qualities like courage and valor...if even within the context of my own imagination.

It's like farming, grow healthy beliefs within yourself first and then maybe a person can exhibit them within the context of our own mundane existances. I most likely am primarily a complainer and am not prepared to defend my cival liberities like a Rosa Parks or a MLK with thier assocated costs and sacrifices.

Sincerely

pawn11

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 10-29-03 10:02 PM
pawn11 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for pawn11 Click here to Send pawn11 a Private Message Find more posts by pawn11 Add pawn11 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
waterbearer
Full Member

Therefore, if one is not fully cognizant of the dangers inherent in doing battle, one cannot fully know the benefits of doing battle.


What good does the Calculation actually serve? Sun Tzu makes it clear: to appreciate the benefits, one must know precisely what is risked.

__________________
What honor is there in being still when stillness is expected...what wisdom is there in choosing simply to say that you have chosen? Make way and chose or not, but wisely so.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 03-31-04 03:15 AM
waterbearer is offline Click Here to See the Profile for waterbearer Click here to Send waterbearer a Private Message Find more posts by waterbearer Add waterbearer to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Truthseeker
Full Member (S)
Making assumtions

quote:
Therefore, if one is not fully cognizant of the dangers inherent in doing battle, one cannot fully know the benefits of doing battle.


Most seem to look upon strategic planning from the offensive postion. ST makes it clear that defensive measures are just as important. Any attention given to the defensive strategy is, for the most part, pure conjecture and assumption. Not that one will always know with certainty the best defensive strategy, but one should limit assumptions through a deep level of reseach into the dangers of our efforts.

__________________
Truthseeker


Suffering is the breaking of the shell that encloses our understanding


"Truth is narrowed down and made a plaything for those who are weak, for those who are only momentarily discontented. Truth cannot be brought down; rather the individual must make the effort to ascend to it."

Krishnamurti

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-16-04 09:27 PM
Truthseeker is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Truthseeker Click here to Send Truthseeker a Private Message Find more posts by Truthseeker Add Truthseeker to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
All times are GMT. The time now is 02:15 PM. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (3): [1] 2 3 »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to this Thread

Forum Jump:
 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is OFF
 

Home | Forum Home | Chat Room

Site Map | Privacy
Copyright (c) 1999 - 2009 Sonshi.com. All Rights Reserved.