09.038 If his troops confront you with anger, but do not do battle...

[sonshi]

If his troops confront you with anger, but do not do battle or leave their position, he must be investigated.

Originally posted by sonshi
If his troops confront you with anger, but do not do battle or leave their position, he must be investigated.

The Wise Strategist never directly confront an angry opposition. He should always hold his position, wait and cautiously analyze the cause[s] for such emotional anger.

[gonzo]

If his forces act independantly, then he may have lost control over them.

Gonzo

Sun Tzu said, "If his troops confront you with anger, but do not do battle or leave their position, he must be investigated."

Paradox is a factor of war.

The general knows that there are many dynamic factors that an army has to contend with and he needs to do constant calculations to decipher the opposition's disposition and motivation. Sometimes actions are not based on logic and are based purely on emotion. The general may calculate all of the logical factors and still come up with the wrong answer.

[markb287]

The troops are basically trying to scare and rattle you. Apparently if Sun-tzu says to investigate the enemy, then he's hinting that there must be something wrong with him.

[pawn12]

I find this to be a confusing post. I might assume that the opposing forces are trying to lure one out by showing their anger. This might be an enemy tactic becausethey do not leave their position to engeage but hope that I might be lured to a vulnerable position.

I don't really get this one.

Pawn12

[Truthseeker]

Originally posted by sonshi
If his troops confront you with anger, but do not do battle or leave their position, he must be investigated.

My view is that the enemy is attempting to create an emotional reaction in you. As has been stated before, acting out of emotion lead to recklessness and will grant the enemy an advantage. Proceed with caution in these situations.

[mikelewis]

If his troops confront you with anger, but do not do battle or leave their position, he must be investigated.

This simply means that caution must be used when viewing an enemy encampment that is openly hostile but refuses to attack or withdraw. There could be many reasons for this action. Sun Tzu is warning that you must discover why the enemy wishes to stay in that position. If you attack, you may be walking into a trap. If you hesitate, you may allow for reinforcements to swell his ranks. It may also be subterfuge. A general may wish to keep your eyes focused on one thing while another army, spy or event has completed its mission.

For so little words, there is a lot of wisdom.

[MonteChristo]

Anger is very strong emotion. Although decisions should be taken preferably in the emotionless manner, it does not mean that emotions should be or could be eliminated. On the contrary. Ability to raise them is quite important when big effort is ahead of you. Sometimes greatest achievement happened in the moments when great happiness, love and other emotions were experienced.

I am not quite sure why Sun Tzu referred in this passage to anger. Maybe he thought that people might feel anger because they want to do battle and then they are dangerous or they do not want to do the battle and then this can be used as an advantage. Not doing battle or leaving their positions might be deception in the first case or sign of resignation in the second case.

[Saro]

In order for the enemy's troops to strike against you with high morale, he'd have to evoke anger in them (whether proactively or by allowing circumstances to develop in that direction on their own) against you before turning them loose. If the troops are eager to move but he holds them in check, this counterintuitive move must be investigated to determine what he's planning. It may be that he's waiting for an even more opportune moment to strike which he predicts in the near future. If so, you will need to guard against this development. Or this could be an indication that he's completely inept. But suspicious action like that should not simply be ignored if only because there are so many different things that it might mean.

Originally posted by Saro
In order for the enemy's troops to strike against you with high morale, he'd have to evoke anger in them (whether proactively or by allowing circumstances to develop in that direction on their own) against you before turning them loose. If the troops are eager to move but he holds them in check, this counterintuitive move must be investigated to determine what he's planning. It may be that he's waiting for an even more opportune moment to strike which he predicts in the near future. If so, you will need to guard against this development. Or this could be an indication that he's completely inept. But suspicious action like that should not simply be ignored if only because there are so many different things that it might mean.

How strange is the behavior ?

[Saro]

Originally posted by EKG
How strange is the behavior ?

I don't know what you mean by this. All I can think of in reply is "strange enough to catch your attention."

Originally posted by Saro
I don't know what you mean by this. All I can think of in reply is "strange enough to catch your attention."

March into a dead end (Death March author Ed Yourdon) , just applying common sense in geography.

行軍進入死胡同，普通地理常識也。

[Yin]

Originally Posted by sonshi

If his troops confront you with anger, but do not do battle or leave their position, he must be investigated.

find the cause of their anger

and use it to persuade them to join your side