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Sonshi Forum Sonshi Forum > Sun Tzu Art of War Explained > Thirteen: Using Spies > 13.015 Generally, if you want to attack an army, besiege...
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sonshi
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13.015 Generally, if you want to attack an army, besiege...

Generally, if you want to attack an army, besiege a walled city, assassinate individuals, you must know the identities of the defending generals, assistants, associates, gate guards, and officers. You must have spies seek and learn them.

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Old Post 09-02-02 08:55 AM
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Cardinal999
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Direct Confrontation warfare requires one to know the habits of all of the opposing principals.

Beside habits, one needs to know "strengths and weakness" of each of those opposing individuals that are involved in his/her offensive scheme.

Once those variables are known, a strategy and a set of tactics can be developed that would allow the attacking party to secured their objective.

This quote reminded me of a story.
"Many years in Shogun Japan, one opposing family wanted to assasinate a major rival of theirs. They hired a ninja group to kill this rival. The ninja spend the next three months studying the schedules of everyone in the rival castle. After 3 months of scouting and surveying, they knew the habits and time schedules of everyone in that castle. They knew the terrain inside and outside of the castle. The next step was to sneak a assassion into the camp. He hid inside of the favorite "debris" pot (aka crap pot) of that target and wait for the target to come to him.

After a week, the target walked by the pot and sat on it to release some debris and pressure.

From inside of the pot, the assassion knew it was him and send his blade up the anus of the target. Now you know where the phrase "Pain in the butt" came from. Ha! Ha! Ha!

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"In the Field of Observation, Fortune Favors the Prepared (and the Bold)."


"The stillness in stillness is not the true stillness; only when there is stillness in motion does the universal rhythm manifest." - Old Daoist Text

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Old Post 10-30-02 02:46 AM
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gonzo
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In order to form a precision strike, you must know all there is about the target, and anything that could potentially get in their way.

Gonzo

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Old Post 12-08-02 10:36 PM
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HALBLEU
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To attack a strategy or an alliance, information must be secured.

To attack the army or the city, the function of the spy must know the habits of everyone, from schedules to eating patterns.
He os she must also the physical weakness of the target.

This step sets up the critical path for the attacking squad.

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Old Post 12-24-02 09:04 AM
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BingFa
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The better the intelligence that is obtained prior to commencement of hostilities, the more likelihood that the battles will be over sooner rather than later.

The purpose of spying is to get an enemy to do one's will without having to resort to armed conflict.

BingFa

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Old Post 04-18-03 05:45 PM
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SunZulu
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Sun Tzu said, "Generally, if you want to attack an army, besiege a walled city, assassinate individuals, you must know the identities of the defending generals, assistants, associates, gate guards, and officers. You must have spies seek and learn them."

The general knows anything with form can be defeated. If the opposition is known and his plans are exposed his weapons will be useless and his organization will be crushed.

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Old Post 04-26-03 11:52 PM
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fenriz
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Re: 13.015 Generally, if you want to attack an army, besiege...

quote:
Originally posted by sonshi
Generally, if you want to attack an army, besiege a walled city, assassinate individuals, you must know the identities of the defending generals, assistants, associates, gate guards, and officers. You must have spies seek and learn them.


In conducting an assault on a fortified position, the sage commander relies on a "fifth column" of spies and sympathizers that are already within the walled city to undermine its defenses.

The term "fifth column" originated out of the Spanish Civil War by General Emilio Mola Vidal. When General Vidal was moving his four columns of soldiers to invade Madrid he referred to his "fifth column" of sympathizers within the capitol that would undermine the city's defenses from within.

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Old Post 02-25-04 05:16 AM
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Truthseeker
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Know the enemy

quote:
Originally posted by sonshi
Generally, if you want to attack an army, besiege a walled city, assassinate individuals, you must know the identities of the defending generals, assistants, associates, gate guards, and officers. You must have spies seek and learn them.


This passage is a recurring theme in the ST. We must know the enemy before engaging in battle. We must understand his motivations, his likes and dislikes as well as those of his subordinates. Thus we will have a good idea of where he intends to strike and how he intends to invoke battle.

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"Truth is narrowed down and made a plaything for those who are weak, for those who are only momentarily discontented. Truth cannot be brought down; rather the individual must make the effort to ascend to it."

Krishnamurti

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Old Post 07-09-04 04:01 PM
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pawn12
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It's very hard to improve on what you folks have been discusssing. Needless to say I would be wise to remember all of your apt comments on the gathering of intelligence. I particularily enjoy Cardinal999 story of the ninja.

I find it all very applicable to career planning and scouting out potential places of employment.

pawn12

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Old Post 09-27-04 06:10 PM
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