Therefore, go through it by means of five factors; compare them by means of calculation, and determine their statuses: One, Way, two, Heaven, three, Ground, four, General, five, Law.

The Journey continues...

The understanding of war is the understanding of the ends of existence of and within the nation. To enable the expression of the inexpressible, to "talk the walk", requires that analysis occur. Thus the importance of the five factors.

Indefinable by themselves, it is in the interelationship of these factors by which their importance is judged and they gain meaning. Thus the necessity of calculation.

The journey is supreme, for it locates one upon the Way.

Heaven is above, forever beyond.

The Ground becomes past as it enters perception.

The Warrior lies between beginning and end, future and past. The still point forever moving.

Law is the sinew of consciouness, connecting awareness with reality in a simulcra of truth. It comes after the event, framing the future in the terms of experience.

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In any enterprise, success is the offspring of planning and execution. It is planning, based on assessment of self and of adversary, that plants the seed that execution brings to bear. Assessment of strength and weakness is grounded in a matrix of five factors that define a universality of knowing.

__________________
What honor is there in being still when stillness is expected...what wisdom is there in choosing simply to say that you have chosen? Make way and chose or not, but wisely so.

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Five Elements

With respect to Sun Tzu's principle of taking whole, this passage is the first account in of observing war, life and the universe in this way. The chances of success increase with the understanding that all things are interconected. One is subservient to the other.

ST is encouraging us to learn how to adapt successfully to any situation. A good example of this can be derived from Darwin's Origin Of The Species.

quote:

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Wheresoever, therefore, all things together (that is all the parts of one whole) happened like as if they were made for the sake of something, these were preserved, having been appropriately constituted by an internal spontaneity, and whatsoever things were not thus constituted, perished, and still perish. or means of the transformation of species...

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__________________
Truthseeker


Suffering is the breaking of the shell that encloses our understanding


"Truth is narrowed down and made a plaything for those who are weak, for those who are only momentarily discontented. Truth cannot be brought down; rather the individual must make the effort to ascend to it."

Krishnamurti

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Sun Tzu said,

Therefore, go through it by means of five factors; compare them by means of calculation, and determine their statuses: One, Way, two, Heaven, three, Ground, four, General, five, Law.

just because I'm not sure how to approach this one, I'm going to do it as generally as i can.

Way: How you do it. What path you take, what strategy you use, what decisions you make, are all a part of the way.

Heaven: The elements, what the heavens offer in terms of weather. If you are given rain, you have to make diffrent considerations than if you are given sun.

Ground: The terrain you're looking at battling on. Landscape, flora, fauna, ect.

General: Yourself. What are you doing to change your position? How can you increase your own contribution to your army? How are you viewed by your troops? What are you in relation to your army?

Law: Organization. law goes back to the Code of Laws. The code of laws would set certain individuals as "judges" others as "jury" others as "sheriffs" and others as "accused" and "victims". In the army's case, i would say the Judge is the General, the Jury is the General, the Sheriffs are his right hand men, and the accused are all his troops. He has to do something with the accused to keep them in line, he has to do something with the victims to keep them from abandoning him. He also has to keep all parties happy, fed, and able bodied.

Law could also be seen as the diffrence between Monarchy, Dictatorship, Republic, Democracy: How are you setting up your army, organationally, to keep them most effect? What kind of Gov't is your army?

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Therefore, go through it by means of five factors; compare them by means of calculation, and determine their statuses: One, Way, two, Heaven, three, Ground, four, General, five, Law.

I think the Way refers to the possibilities that are presented. There are many "ways", a good leader must choose the best course of action.

Heaven is, perhaps, fate. The things beyond our control which we can not control.

Ground is immediate, within our grasp. It is that which we have control over.

General is leadership. Are we a good leader? What are our failings?

Law. What is there that limits our field of action? What rules and limitations have been place in our way? Rules of war.

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The five factors

Understanding yourself and others is key to victory. This leads to what Sun Tzu called the "Way." In modern times leading people with dignity and respect and fostering intiative and teamwork. Getting those in your command to go out and do what is expected and necessary to solve whatever problem is presented is understanding the "Way".

You must know the circumstances what both your strengths and weaknesses are and what the strengths and weaknesses are of your opponent, project or ground you hold.

Your knowledge of the situations and the tactics you employ to gain success or victory. If capable and trustworthy your men will follow and help in your sucess. But they must trust you fully in all aspects.

If you have the above four down,your methods for employing your men will be met with motivation and vigor to meet whatever goals you have in whatever circumstances and they will take the initiative and work as a team to move forward and solve the problems they are faced with.

This takes alot of self analysis and study of whatever it is you do or are up against. It takes candid open and honest answers to questions about yourself as well as your understanding of conflict. It takes being flexible of thought and quick on your feet thinking in dynamic situations. It takes knowing when to make decisions quickly or when to take your time.

Bottom line it takes ongoing and ongoing study of yourself and of others. As Sun Tzu said: " Know yourself and know your enemy in one hundred battles you will not be in peril. Know yourself and not your enemy for every battle won you will also lose. Know neither yourself nor your enemy you will be in peril in every battle."

This forum is great! It gets you to think about the Art of War and how it applies in all aspects of life. As a new member i hope I do it justice!

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The essence of warfare is no more than to strive for the most gain with the least loss. One does this through Deep Knowledge and Strong Action: In warfare, one must gain an advantage over his enemy. He does this by making no mistakes and inducing the enemy to make numerous mistakes. He makes no mistakes through deep knowledge and induces his enemy to make numerous mistakes through strong action. I believe that this chapter is devoted to the concept of deeep knowledge. What I mean by this is deep knowledge of the situation. Sun Tzu states the five factors to assess, but I believe that the five factors that comprise warfare are
1.Yourself
2.Your enemy
3.Terrain
4.Timing
5.Politics/Reason
Sun Tzu states: "Those who have achieved victory beforehand have the majority of advantageous factors on their side." A General must know himself and his enemy: warfare is a matter of striking weakness and avoiding strength, so if one does not assess and weigh both sides, he will not know where to move. Terrain is what aids or hinders the army. Those who take the helpful terrain are victorious. Those who take the unhelpful terrain perish. Military operations must have deft timing: if the General does not know when he will strike, this is called an uncoordinated assault. As for reason, Clauzewitz refers to warfare as an extension of politics. This does not imply that military operations are to be run by rules of civil affairs; before war is declared and men are sent to their graves, diplomacy and civil solutions are to be attempted first. Considering that the goal of civil affairs is to establish harmony among the people, is it not reasonable to assume that the ultimate goal of warfare is to restore peace to the land and establish harmony among the people? Therefore, a General is aware of the political reasons of waging war.

__________________
"Warfare is a vital matter of the state.
The ground of life or death, the road to
survival or ruin. Hence, it must be
thouroughly examined."

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The warrior of today has the ability to conquer any situation by use of strategy. He can intermingle with any group, and become their leader.
Yet before doing this he must be aware of 5 noble truths. They are the moral law, the sky, earth, leadership and methodolgy of the group.

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Here the struggle is broken down into five areas that are to be examined and researched as they relate to both yourself and your opponent. These factors, as they relate to sport, could be interpreted as follows:

1. Way - Singleness of purpose, appropriate sound goals and or team unity.
2. Heaven - Natural environmental elements that are subject to constant and sometimes unpredictable change.
3. Ground - Terrain. The solid, relatively constant environmental surroundings.
4. General - Mental aspects and preparation of the competitors.
5. Law - Physical and organizational characteristics of the competitors and/or their teams.

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There are five parts to warfare:

The way: the way a general rules his soldiers.
Heaven: white and black. A balance between elements.
Earth: Distance across all things measurable.
Command: the bond between general and troop, the connection that they share with a mutual trust.
Discipline: the method in which men are formed.

These are the 5 parts.

__________________
Ultimate excellence lies
Not in winning
Every battle
But in defeating the enemy
Without ever fighting

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Five factors

The author has deliberately set up five categories in which war may be examined and discussed on a more intimate level.

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Five factors

The author has deliberately set up five categories in which war may be examined and discussed on a more intimate level.

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quote:

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Therefore, go through it by means of five factors; compare them by means of calculation, and determine their statuses: One, Way, two, Heaven, three, Ground, four, General, five, Law.

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Mostly introduction...

This sentence offers us an introductory expectation for what is to follow: the five factors.

The point of interest here is: "compare them by means of calculation":

"Calculation" is a very specific word, very exact:

American Heritage sez:

"Careful, often cunning estimation and planning of likely outcomes, especially to advance one's own interests."

The phrase "cold and calculating" is almost a cliche', as the process of "calculation" involves such cerebral and specifically-rational evaluation.

We are being instructed to "determine their statuses" (the five factors), which is also a very NON-emotional phrase.

This sentence, therefore, is setting the ground for an intense and highly disciplined consideration of the entire text.

__________________

... with Peace and Gratitude, Dan E, Seattle...

                               

"The Gnomes have a learned a new way to say 'Hooray!'!!!"

- Shpongled, with construed, if not in fact, total debt to T. McKenna

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Therefore, go through it by means of five factors; compare them by means of calculation, and determine their statuses: One, Way, two, Heaven, three, Ground, four, General, five, Law.

Five categories is a manageable number; each of five people standing in a circle can easily communicate with each of the others. The factors must be seen as dynamic and interdependent. This advice seems to be setting the stage: the calculations are complex and interrelated, making the permutations dauntingly variable. But when the mind is overwhelmed by the sheer number of possibilities, it can withdraw to the simplistic concept of five variables, and upon finding some coherent ground underfoot, can then venture out into the more subtle considerations.

Undertake the study by weighing the effect of five factors, each as it stands alone and as it relates to each of the others: One, Way; two, Heaven; three, Ground; four, General; and five, Law.

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