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  #1  
Old 06-24-02, 07:30 PM
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Post 01.011 Calculate advantages by means...

Calculate advantages by means of what was heard, then create force in order to assist outside missions.
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  #2  
Old 09-19-02, 12:42 PM
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Now, in this instance, I have a more traditional interpretion of the term "heard" as used in the excerpt above. But I also interpret "heard" to mean learned.

In circa 500 BC, Chinese armies used drums and gongs to signal troops that could be spread out a fairly long distance. They also used flags and standards but they generally worked only when the troops' line of sight was unobstructed.

It wasn't for nothing that Sun Tzu put as his very first chapter, "Estimates." Everything begins with self-assessment and calculations. Perhaps, Socrates (or was it Plato or Aristotle -- I forget) was on to something when they uttered, "Know thyself." Although, if some classic historians are to be relied upon, it is possible that Plato also said "Touch thyself."

By adapting his force structure, an ancient General could realign his assets in order to be in a better position to accomplish his mission.

In the modern day corporate world, this restructuring is euphimistically referred to as getting RIFFed. Corporate dropouts in denial simply say that their job was eliminated. Either one works depending on which side of the desk one is sitting on.

Point is, when corporate realignments are in the offing, it is often a signal that somewhere somebody has built a spreadsheet and determined that the firm's competitive advantages (think Michael Porter on steroids) will increase if FTEs decline.

And to put a positive spin on the lay-off announcement, the BIG DOGS usually say they are refocusing on their business. What they are trying to convey to the general public is that they have learned from their missteps.

However, when Generals' misstep it costs men and women their lives. And in some instances, the lives of innocent noncombatants. This is NEVER a good thing.

Ever.

Never ever. Remember the debacle in Somalia in 1993.

Thus, unlike in the business world, where the level of fault tolerance is high, in the martial world, where people's lives hang in the balance, there is not nearly the same degree of latitude and tolerance for screw-ups at the highest levels. Thus, I also construe the excerpt above to be an indirect allusion to the importance of ensuring that the right men are in the right jobs at the right time.

When Sun Tzu wrote his treatise, the exploits of courageous men in battle were reported back to the General's by word-of-mouth. That is when the General's "heard" who was worthy. And more often than not, the best Generals upon learning from what they "heard", they took immediate action to promote the worthy and demote (if you were fortunate) the unworthy.

So, as stated, this is why I believe the word "heard" can also be construed as "learned."

-BingFa
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Old 09-19-02, 04:34 PM
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"Calculate advantages by means of what was heard, then create force in order to assist outside missions."

Do not formulate a plan before gathering sufficient intelligence to understand the situation. Once the plan is formulated, then marshal resources in accordance with the plan. It does not mean raising an army from scratch, but rather utilizing what is there, by ordering troops and materiel as necessary, though raising more troops or purchasing additional equipment may also be necessary.
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Old 09-20-02, 08:39 AM
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"Calculate advantages by means of what was heard, then create force in order to assist outside missions."-Sun-tzu.

Sun-tzu is emphasizing here to calculate the advantages and disadvantages of the situation. If he does, then he can use it in order to have his men actually carry out these calculations.
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Old 10-14-02, 11:27 AM
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Careful analysis of the situation and planning are essential to the teachings of Sun Wu. Here we find out that after performing the analysis we should work towards increasing the internal force of the army. Only when sufficient force was created then any mission can be undertaken.

However the army should engage itself into action only when enough weaknesses were identified at the opponent side, which can be explored.
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Old 11-01-02, 08:55 AM
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One should be able to state an advantage in a clear short sentence. This does not mean that the advantages can't be subtle. Knowing for certain a weakness of the enemy general is a clear advantage. However in order to achieve victory the advantages must be acted upon. An advantage which can't be exploited in practice is just an illusion of superiority.
Sun Tzu suggests that the resiurces available must be used in a creative way. 'create the force' means that sometimes there is more than one posibillity to exploit an advantage. Here come into play the individual abilities of the general, hiis personality. He may choose to strike bluntly, or choose stealth or deception. There are many ways to skin a cat...
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Old 11-01-02, 08:57 AM
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Default I forgot to login sorry

One should be able to state an advantage in a clear short sentence. This does not mean that the advantages can't be subtle. Knowing for certain a weakness of the enemy general is a clear advantage. However in order to achieve victory the advantages must be acted upon. An advantage which can't be exploited in practice is just an illusion of superiority.
Sun Tzu suggests that the resources available must be used in a creative way. 'create the force' means that sometimes there is more than one posibillity to exploit an advantage. Here come into play the individual abilities of the general, hiis personality. He may choose to strike bluntly, or choose stealth or deception. There are many ways to skin a cat...
Sorry that was me before but I pushed the wrong button
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  #8  
Old 11-05-02, 02:23 PM
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Default ANOTHER POV

/// *** Calculate advantages by means of what was heard, then create force in order to assist outside missions. *** ///

The Wise Strategic Leader always calculate his advantage based on "intellligence obtained on the opposition". Then one subtley create a min. task team to test the validity of the information.

The Wise Strategist must always be aware the possibility of the opposition running a [bait -n- switch] tactic on him.

Remember this is the preliminary stage when each parties is testing one another.
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Old 11-09-02, 02:38 PM
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Default calculate advantages by means of what was heard

I believe that that means that you should have some kind of intelligence network set up. You should make a calculation based on what it is, and use that to assist other "missions" that are occuring.

Gonzo
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Old 11-12-02, 04:06 AM
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Default A Business Interpretation

First, understand your target market's needs very well.

Then, design your product or service to meet your target market's needs.
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  #11  
Old 01-12-03, 03:45 PM
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Default "then create shi"

Careful with the translation of 'shi' as force. Shi isn't the force of muscles or weapons -- it's more like the touch that causes a balanced 1000 ton rock to fall in the direction of the touch. When you understand the inherent tension of the situation, you can change it to your advantage like Old Chuang's butcher disjointing an ox.
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Old 01-24-03, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Calculate advantages by means of what was heard, then create force in order to assist outside missions.
Calculation and the discovery of advantages should be based on information you know about the enemy or his allies. Knowing the information does no good to the general who does not use it to further his cause. Exploiting the advantage should bring the general closer to his goals. Knowing an advantage and exploiting it does no good if it does not assist your missions or help you reach your objectives.


Toker
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Old 01-26-03, 03:34 AM
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-Calculate advantages by means of what was heard, then create force in order to assist outside missions.

Again, in my humble opinion, we have a simple statement with rather profound depth. Indeed, "heard" can be traditional in the form of drums and "heard" can be thought of as all intelligence data, including the "rumor mill". Once this information is gathered, then, as Chali discussed, "Shih" (Denma group spelling) is considered. When one thinks of the wise commander's "Way" and the totality of that influence, then the "assistance" is awesome. One can even consider "outside" as meaning outside the normal battle plan or "order of battle". This is especially important as one consider's the fluidity and ever changing nature of battle.

Humbly,


Lonestar
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Old 01-26-03, 03:41 AM
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-Calculate advantages by means of what was heard, then create force in order to assist outside missions.

Again, in my humble opinion, we have a simple statement with rather profound depth. Indeed, "heard" can be traditional in the form of drums and "heard" can be thought of as all intelligence data, including the "rumor mill". Once this information is gathered, then, as Chali discussed, "Shih" (Denma group spelling) is considered. When one thinks of the wise commander's "Way" and the totality of that influence, then the "assistance" is awesome. One can even consider "outside" as meaning outside the normal battle plan or "order of battle". This is especially important as one consider's the fluidity and ever changing nature of battle.

Humbly,


Lonestar
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  #15  
Old 01-28-03, 03:45 AM
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gain the appropriate intel for your mission. make your battle plan from this intel, then STRIKE! basically learn everything you can about your goal, and achieving your goal first, then put it into good use.
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