An American Foreign Legion?

Everyone is familiar with the French Foreign Legion, and probably less have heard about the Spanish Foreign Legion (there is one). Would anyone agree that an American version is a good idea?

In any country, a population can be squeamish when they send their sons into combat. Letting someone else do the fighting might come off as a better alternative. There would be no shortage for volunteers I believe if the US follows the French model. Citizenship after 8 years and decent pay will be very attractive to foreigners.

Comments?

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I see it as workable, as long as the US can control provincial states in which the Legionaires can reside. A foreign army, even under US control on American soil is too large of a risk.

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Why? Foreigners can enlist

You can enlist in the US military without a US citizenship. I have served with a handful of soldiers that immigrated from other countries(Russia, Panama, Vietnam, Colombia, Romania, Korea, Mexico, Canada, to name a few) The military it is a gateway and a fastrack to US citizenship. Three years of active service or service in a combat zone during a time of war is needed for naturalization. I believe the laws have changed recently to allow naturalization of all active servicemembers and allowing naturalization ceremony on foriegn soil. I have read about servicemembers swearing oath from their hospital beds in Walter Reed and posthumously awarding citizenship to servicemembers killed in Iraq.

The US military is a melting pot. A foreign legion would be moot.

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sounds good....

I would go for a yes on this one... however i would definitely make it limited and not have them stationed anywhere near US soil

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Re: Why? Foreigners can enlist

quote:

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Originally posted by GorTex6
You can enlist in the US military without a US citizenship. I have served with a handful of soldiers that immigrated from other countries(Russia, Panama, Vietnam, Colombia, Romania, Korea, Mexico, Canada, to name a few) The military it is a gateway and a fastrack to US citizenship. Three years of active service or service in a combat zone during a time of war is needed for naturalization. I believe the laws have changed recently to allow naturalization of all active servicemembers and allowing naturalization ceremony on foriegn soil. I have read about servicemembers swearing oath from their hospital beds in Walter Reed and posthumously awarding citizenship to servicemembers killed in Iraq.

The US military is a melting pot. A foreign legion would be moot.

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just a quick comment

Yeah, the US military is a melting pot, and a fast track, to NATURALIZATION, NOT CITIZENSHIP, YOU MUST HAVE BEEN IN THE USA FOR 2 YEARS BEFORE JOINING

The official US Army page is rather evasive to that query, and i had to ask in its chatroom. The recruiters were nice and answered my question quickly and to the point : "We are forbidden to help any undocumented/not properly documented foreigner join the US army, permanent resident status documentation is required". Of course, according to the USCIS, the organization in charge of immigration and the like, there is no real legal way to inmigrate to the US if you haven't landed a job there first. Turist visas (which are the only type of visa that won't be denied before you can say "Immigration" outside of the US) are valid for up to 6 month visits (that's assuming the border officer that asks you what is your business in the US doesn't shred your card as soon as you tell him you'd like to live there sometime, or that you want to stay there for the whole six months time, i've seen them do it). To gain residence you must stay in the US for at least two consecutive years, that means you must ignore the 6 month rule and stay there evading the CIS officers as best as you can. I'd comment on the subject cause i'm sure as hell mad at that kind of "No official entry" policy, but that's a whole different subject.

http://uscis.gov/graphics/ <--- US immigration services

http://www.goarmy.com/ <--- Recruitment and information page for the USA Army/army reserve.

That means a foreign wanting to join the USA army must have been successful at infiltrating the country illegally and evading the inmigration authorities, or he must be rather good at bending the law by not using his visa as it was intended. In practice recruiters see that this is quite stupid and that the need for new recruits, especially in these times, is high enough to make the army look the other way around and not ask for the inmigration papers, APARENTLY. I'm not sure if they really look the other way around, and i didn't ask the recruiters on site, but since inmigrants have died overseas without being residents i assume so.

All in all i'd be in favor of the foreign legion, being foreign and wanting to serve, not really for the citizenship or the cash, i'd just like to serve in the US army.

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enlistment

Naturalization is Citizenship! You are a natural (born in USA, a parent is a US citizen, etc) or a naturalized citizen (those that come from somewhere else).
To enlist in the Armed Forces you must be a citizen or a legal resident ('green card'), it doesn't matter how long you have lived here.
Whether a recruiter looks the other way about documentation is irrelavent as all they do is the initial paperwork (and legwork). They do not have the say-so on who does or doen't get to enlist.

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Another point

quote:

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Originally posted by Sennacherib


In any country, a population can be squeamish when they send their sons into combat. Letting someone else do the fighting might come off as a better alternative.
Comments?

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I oppose an American Foreign Legion.

But if there were one, I oppose allowing any Frenchman to join. That is a recipe for disaster.

Going to war is serious business and we should never feel comfortable sub-contracting that responsiibility to a bunch of hired-hands.

Fighting America's Wars is the duty of America's Sons and Daughters.

If the USA needs mercenaries and fighting proxies, we can obtain them easy enough with far more discretion, so we don't need to utilize an American Foreign Legion.

BingFa

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Auxilia

"About 7 percent of the U.S. military are not citizens. There are about 30,000 foreign soldiers in the U.S. military from more than 100 countries; more than a third are Hispanic. To encourage recruitment, in 2002 the Bush administration made it easier for foreign-born U.S. troops to become naturalized citizens. Now, any legal resident who joins the military can immediately petition for citizenship rather than wait the five years required for civilians to start this process. They do not even have to pay the several hundred dollar fee for this process. As an added incentive, if a foreign-born soldier who is a U.S. citizen dies in the line of duty, the foreign-born members of his or her family can now seek citizenship, even if they are not legal residents. It is also possible for soldiers to be made citizens after they have died in service and for their families to then become eligible for citizenship.

Despite all this, the numbers of non-citizens joining the military is falling fast. The number has fallen by 20 percent since 2001. It is not slowing down, as much of the decline came last year."

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/mian.php?articleid=7258

This reminds me somewhat of the Roman Army's problems in the days of its Imperial decline in the West. Their citizen army's second tier, those who served for citizenship, became the huge majority of the army immediately prior to the final collapse. The Roman collapse in recruitment did not cause the collapse of empire, it was but another symptom of a larger pattern.

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PMCs are....

- the second largest military force in Iraq(personnel).

- the second largest military force in the world(financially)

- one of the (if not the) fastest growing industries in America

- unregulated in every imaginable way

Do I see a paradigm shift?

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PMCs and Foreign Legionnaires

Private Military Contractors and Foreign Legionnaires seem to both bespeak of a break away from the Classic Clauswitzian Citizen army, whether that be the Levee en mass or the Professional Thin Red/Grey Line.

When the Roman paradigm shifted, there was a corresponding change to the geostrategic basis of Imperial might, and consequent changes to strategies and tactics. As I said, this was also reflected in the composition and competencies of the army. In the modern literature, they refer to this as a paradigm shift. The parallels are there.

This is an interesting subject, deserves its own thread I think. If you start, I will follow.

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PMC goes public

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In response to "sub-contracting" anyone out there have the numbers on the use of mercenaries by the US and Britain right now in Iraq? Think those mercenaries go through the same screening as a foreign national applying to serve in the US military?

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whoops cancel my last questions, someone already mentioned it and I'd scrolled past. Thanx Bushranger

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