Sun Bin

Do our hosts have any comments on the work of Sun Bin, whose work, I understand almost immediately follows Sun Tzu?

Thanks in advance.

Best Regards,

Rick Matz

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Ah yes, Sun Pin (or Bin), the ancient military strategist following about a century after Sun-tzu. Sun Pin was a very intelligent person and probably was as good as Sun-tzu, but his book is not, what I would say, for the general audience and it doesn't apply many principles such as the Sun-tzu does. But it is interesting and tells about the ancient styles back then.

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I agree with markb287 .

sun bin book is not complete, many chapters are lost or broken.

it's interesting mostly if you want to use bronze-age war chariots and chinese crossbowers in a battle...



well, his war principles are less generic and flexible than sun tzu's ones. but thy can be useful for a deeper analysis on chinese tactics.

bye

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Odysseus Nobody

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Sun Bin was an extremely gifted strategist. His work is giving the general reader an insight into the psychological and practical workings of Sun Tzu's teachings. The general reader can appreciate from this work the subtle insights into the nature of human beings in certain crisis situations. Lets not forget for a moment, that Sun Bin was a student of Wang Li. Wang Li, reputed to have produced the most sophisticated peaice of work on the art of strategy.
Although I do agree that records of Sun Bins work have been lost, but what we do have is valuable. I think we can all use works given to us by gifted individuals of the past.

Thank you for this disscussion my fellow members.

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I must disagree with you all on your opinions of Sun bin. He was taught the Art of War in the Sun clan, so from the masters mouth more or less, and, he has many many good principles that do deserve attention. They are not as flexiable as Sun Tzs, perhapse, but it requires extra time to see through the specfics to see that, in many ways Sun Bin improved on the art of war in a most significant manor.

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"Amatures read Sun Tzu, Proffesionals Think Sun Tzu"

"You can kill a man, you cant kill and idea"

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Sun Bin's work is more detailed than Sun Tzu's and that's why it is not as flexible or general...but those elaborations are what makes his work so great. Their knowledge doesn't seem to differ to much...just their ways of explaining it.

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passing through the demon valley under the mutilated sun

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Sun Bin was recognized for his military brilliance at an early age. Pang Juan, a fellow student who was jealous of Sun Bin, plotted to bring Sun Bin to ruin. Appointed as a minister in Wei, Pang Juan enticed Sun Bin to go to Wei, then plotted to ruin Sun Bin. Sun Bin was mutilated, having his kneecaps removed; bin is a reference to the knees or the practice of mutiliation by removing one's knees. In ancient China, mutilation was an ignominious event and generally caused a person to be shunned by society for life; after the mutilation, Sun Bin's career should have effectively been over.

Sun Bin later escaped to Qi. His military skills were recognized, and he came to serve under King Wei. He formed a strong partnership with the military commander Tian Ji. They defeated Wei at the Battle of Guiling against forces led by Pang Juan. When Tian Ji was banished from Qi due to court politics, Sun Bin followed him into exile to Chu. After King Wei passed away, the new king of Qi, King Xuan, recalled Tian Ji and Sun Bin. Sun Bin and Tian Ji later defeated Wei again at the Battle of Maling.

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In military action, there are men who like to fight and enjoy battle, singlehandedly taking on powerful opponents; gather them into one squad and call them "the warriors who repay the nation." - Zhuge Kongming

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Re: Sun Bin

quote:

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Originally posted by RickMatz
Do our hosts have any comments on the work of Sun Bin, whose work, I understand almost immediately follows Sun Tzu?

Thanks in advance.

Best Regards,

Rick Matz

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Do any of you know that Sun Bin was said to be a grandson of Sun Tzu's? I suppose they have good reason for believing him a descendant - it would explain his own annotations to the Art of War and why people think it practically a duplicate of it, though not as good. I think the work of Sun Bin is definitely worth a read but, coming as no surprise, he does not surpass Sun Tzu of course. I do not believe so, anyway.

"Sun Bin was recognized for his military brilliance at an early age. Pang Juan, a fellow student who was jealous of Sun Bin, plotted to bring Sun Bin to ruin. Appointed as a minister in Wei, Pang Juan enticed Sun Bin to go to Wei, then plotted to ruin Sun Bin. Sun Bin was mutilated, having his kneecaps removed; bin is a reference to the knees or the practice of mutiliation by removing one's knees. In ancient China, mutilation was an ignominious event and generally caused a person to be shunned by society for life; after the mutilation, Sun Bin's career should have effectively been over.

Sun Bin later escaped to Qi. His military skills were recognized, and he came to serve under King Wei. He formed a strong partnership with the military commander Tian Ji. They defeated Wei at the Battle of Guiling against forces led by Pang Juan. When Tian Ji was banished from Qi due to court politics, Sun Bin followed him into exile to Chu. After King Wei passed away, the new king of Qi, King Xuan, recalled Tian Ji and Sun Bin. Sun Bin and Tian Ji later defeated Wei again at the Battle of Maling."

Oh, I see you got that from the Wikipedia... I have found errors in the Wikipedia before and have seen some pages changed frequently because it is written and annotated by people just like us rather than experts usually. I tend not to trust Wikipedia so much; I mean, it is good to catch the jist of something from it but it is better to verify certain claims from it and compare them to others rather than rely virtually on the Wiki itself.

It is believed that a lot from his books derive from missing texts from the Art of War rather than his own. But few could be verified as his own - about 16 I remember. I think Sun Bin could of accomplished so much more; having his legs mutilated deminished his confidence and he didn't live up to his aspirations. I mean he accomplished great merit while he lived but I just think he could of attained much more in his life.

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